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Y.A. Tittle 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
44099 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:26 am to Midwesterner)
quote:
Somalia is the closest to an anarchist state in the world.
You been there?
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40219 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:29 am to buddhavista)
quote:
Everything is done by consensus, with no one being the boss.
Its completely unworkable IMHO.
They envision the state disappearing, and instead citizens banding together to work together for the common good. Voluntarily.
That is not anarchist
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
89940 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:29 am to Midwesterner)
quote:
Somalia is the closest to an anarchist state in the world.
A failed state with warlords fighting over power where foreign nations come in and try to help certain warlords against other warlords = anarchism? 
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Midwesterner 
Oklahoma Fan
Modesto, CA
Member since Dec 2012
145 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:30 am to Y.A. Tittle)
quote:
You been there?
Yeah, I was there in the summer of 2002. I was with a group of humanitarians from a Greenpeace NGO based in Vancouver.
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:38 am to Gmorgan4982)
quote:
A failed state with warlords fighting over power where foreign nations come in and try to help certain warlords against other warlords = anarchism?
sounds like a textbook definition of anarchism to me, G!!!!
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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Republic of West Florida
Member since Sep 2004
2635 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:42 am to Gmorgan4982)
quote:
foreign nations come in and try to help certain warlords against other warlords
Is "manipulated tribalism" a better term?
I need a label man. "Dudes hanging around in east africa" just doesn't do it for me.
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Midwesterner
Oklahoma Fan
Modesto, CA
Member since Dec 2012
145 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:46 am to WikiTiger)
Noam Chomsky is the expert on anarcho-syndicalism. He really expounds the view that the primary purpose of the state rests in being the defense of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defense denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which evolves from it.
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6148 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:46 am to buddhavista)
quote:
The right thinks people are rational decision makers
one's definition of "rational" has a heavy bearing on how true this is.
i think that people pretty much always are (as i understand the term), except in cases such as addiction, coercion, insanity, senility, very young childhood, being under the influence of something that alters your perceptions like an hallucinogenic, etc.
not trying to hijack the thread, but the assumption of rationality is as you say an important one. so its exact meaning is important, if utilitarianism influences your views. from what i've seen of your posts buddhavista, i suspect it does.
in the context of the above quote, it just means that people simply make their choices based on their preferences, balancing out short & long-term costs & benefits, even if only at some barely-conscious-of-it level. it does not make any value judgment on individuals' preferences.
ETA- i think this definition makes it a quite reasonable assumption in most cases.
This post was edited on 1/3 at 10:48 am
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DNaquin
LSU Fan
Right here
Member since Nov 2011
3859 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 10:57 am to Meauxjeaux)
quote:
Can you point me to the communist country that has no state or classes?
That is impossible as there has never been a true communist country in human history. All countries known as "communist" never made it past step one of Marx's plan which is socialism.
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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:24 am to 90proofprofessional)
quote:
in the context of the above quote, it just means that people simply make their choices based on their preferences, balancing out short & long-term costs & benefits, even if only at some barely-conscious-of-it level. it does not make any value judgment on individuals' preferences.
I think the majority of the US population is incapable of making good decisions on short vs. long term. just look at credit card debt, unless there is an emergency situation, there is not really a good reason to use high interest short term debt. But people put vacations on credit cards all the time. Hell, I know people who do this......and they are all college educated/professionals.
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jcole4lsu 
Virginia Fan
The Kwisatz Haderach
Member since Nov 2007
21957 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:26 am to buddhavista)
quote:
They envision the state disappearing, and instead citizens banding together to work together for the common good. Voluntarily.
unicorns and rainbows
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LSUconvert
LSU Fan
Clackamas, Or
Member since Aug 2007
443 posts
 Online
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:28 am to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
But what would they do with people who opted out?
Those people would be quasi-exiled, I suspect.
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LSUconvert
LSU Fan
Clackamas, Or
Member since Aug 2007
443 posts
Online
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:29 am to DNaquin)
quote:
step one of Marx's plan which is socialism
You've got some reading to do.
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jcole4lsu
Virginia Fan
The Kwisatz Haderach
Member since Nov 2007
21957 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:31 am to Midwesterner)
quote:
I was with a group of humanitarians from a Greenpeace NGO based in Vancouver.
must be why you are hopped up on anxiety meds now
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Patrick O Rly 
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25709 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:33 am to LSUconvert)
quote:
Those people would be quasi-exiled, I suspect.
Do left anarchist believe in non-violence?
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Midwesterner
Oklahoma Fan
Modesto, CA
Member since Dec 2012
145 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:34 am to jcole4lsu)
Yeah, ad hominem doesn't account for much in a discussion.
Find your logical fallacy here: Ad Hominem
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6148 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:35 am to buddhavista)
quote:
just look at credit card debt
unless it's debt that causes bankruptcy or really damages your life somehow, i still think that's a rational choice.
disclaimer: except in the case where the borrower doesn't fully understand the long-term cost though, and i admit that may be frequent with this example.
quote:
there is not really a good reason to use high interest short term debt.
IYO, although i happen to share that opinion. it may be fully worth it to some- they may just favor current consumption that strongly, while having certainty that they will be able to pay the price a little later. it may seem infantile to you and me though, but they're making that choice based on what they want (again, unless it's driven by addiction or something).
quote:
But people put vacations on credit cards all the time. Hell, I know people who do this......and they are all college educated/professionals.
sounds like you're calling the preferences of some apparently capable adults irrational. your preferences may in fact be better long-term, but not everyone cares about that quite so strongly.
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jcole4lsu
Virginia Fan
The Kwisatz Haderach
Member since Nov 2007
21957 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:36 am to Midwesterner)
oh noz, the heavily medicated troll doesnt respect my "argument"
whatever shall i do
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6148 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:38 am to 90proofprofessional)
My point is that the assumption of rationality that is necessary for some of the right's assumptions on behavior to hold is less restrictive than the definition of rationality you seem to hold.
That rationality assumption is only used in utility-maximization, which is based on preferences, regardless of how silly some peoples' preferences are.
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25709 posts
| re: Anyone familiar with Left leaning Anarchist theory? (Posted on 1/3/13 at 11:40 am to Midwesterner)
quote:
Find your logical fallacy here: Ad Hominem
quote:
Example: After Sally presents an eloquent and compelling case for a more equitable taxation system, Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married, was once arrested, and smells a bit weird.
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