Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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Papa Tigah
LSU Fan
TIGER ISLAND, LA
Member since Sep 2007
10899 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Spags.





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Tiger Stadium 11
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
4631 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

I'm just saying most coordinators get more than a season.


most coordinators defenses dont give up 7000+ yards. oh wait none before have given up 7000+ yards.






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moneyg
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2006
18782 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


It's pretty ridiculous to be trying to explain away the defensive performance this year.

This defense was historically bad. And, while our offense had problems, it had very, very little to do with causing the defensive woes.






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loyalauron
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2012
1325 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Spags in a heartbeat. I wanted Spags from the second I knew he was a possibility. If any of our players have an issue with him, they can hit the road. He knows what he's doing.





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CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2491 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

everyone and their mom knows that spags system requires an adequate pass rush from the front four to disrupt all timing and let the db/lbs to make the plays from the qb having to rush the offense too much.


Everybody knows, every D-Coordinators dream is to be able to put pressure with just their front four. I can't stand when ppl say Spags system requires the front four to provide pressure...well no shite. Explain to me one coordinator who wouldn't be successful if the front four could provide consistent pressure?



This post was edited on 1/2 at 1:06 am


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CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2491 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

The 7-9 record was a complete effort from the offense, defense, special teams & the coaching staff. Only a person who doesn't understand the game & lacks true insight, would sit there & blame the entire disappointing season on the defense.


I think most ppl understand complimentary football leads to winning games in the NFL. At times it's been the offensives fault, special teams problem, coaching adjustments, but it is obvious the defense has been the weakest link (and has been for some time now). Now it's historically bad. I think ppl want to know why things have gotten this BAD on the defensive side. Some blame has to fall on Spags' shoulders to regress this poorly.

It'll be interesting what will happen after Payton and Spags sit down together. Spags better have a good plan going forward during that sit down.






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CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2491 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

I wanted Spags from the second I knew he was a possibility


I did too.


quote:

He knows what he's doing.


Honest question, what makes you so confident in him?






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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
4485 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

Everybody knows, every D-Coordinators dream is to be able to put pressure with just their front four. I can't stand when ppl say Spags system requires the front four to provide pressure...well no shite. Explain to me one coordinator who wouldn't be successful if the front four could provide consistent pressure?



gregg williams or any insane blitz happy defensive coordinator wouldn't be successful because against an rodgers, brady, manning, or brees they'd get torched every time they tried to blitz. if we learned one thing, spags hates to blitz, but let me rephrase myself then, spags system is a basic system that requires the front 4 to do most of the job to make up for any deficiencies the other 7 have. our issue is we have deficiencies on every level.






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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
4485 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

Honest question, what makes you so confident in him?


if you don't mind me chime in since I'm pretty confident in him as a coach too. he pretty much turned the giants defence into a super bowl winning defence. he also turned some players like chris long from a mediocre player into a probowl caliber defensive end. there's also justin tuck a mediocre player at the time and now he's a viable threat. he also two of his best seasons under spags. since he left, one 10+ sack season.

Fir this defence, I think we need just one legit defensive end (draft or maybe michael johnson) for him to work with, he'll mold the rest of the starting tackles (hicks and maybe an improved bunkley) and we've seen how much better cam jordan is this year. I think a healthy vilma/chamberlain - lofton - hawthorne will be a great linebacking corps so unless we land an awesome OLB, I don't think much tweaking will be needed. The db's all need help, but we can't blame him for drafting or giving contracts to bad players. He drafted corey white and brought elbert mack in and both of them have probably been the brightest spots of our cb's later in the season.







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Suntiger
USA Fan
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
20970 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

I think most ppl understand complimentary football leads to winning games in the NFL. At times it's been the offensives fault, special teams problem, coaching adjustments, but it is obvious the defense has been the weakest link (and has been for some time now). Now it's historically bad. I think ppl want to know why things have gotten this BAD on the defensive side. Some blame has to fall on Spags' shoulders to regress this poorly.


This. Blaming the offense for the defense is a copout.

quote:

It's pretty ridiculous to be trying to explain away the defensive performance this year.

This defense was historically bad. And, while our offense had problems, it had very, very little to do with causing the defensive woes.


This again.






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bearhc
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
1221 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


We need better players on defense. To me, the only keeper on the D-line is Jordan. The jury is still out on the linebackers. The secondary is horrible. The DB's totally lack physicality and are poor tacklers. Did Spags go from being a genius with the Giants to a dope overnight? In the NFL, it's about players and having a coach who can control and inspire them.





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BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1808 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

This. Blaming the offense for the defense is a copout.


No, it isn't a copout. It's a valid explanation as to why the defense gave up so much yardage. The defense was going to be below average regardless due to personnel, changes in defense philosophy & injuries. It really is a simple concept that even a caveman can grasp.

Ex. Game one against Washington, the offense went 2-11 on 3rd downs resulting the team losing the time of possession to the Redskins 39:10-25:50.

That's almost a whole quarter of football & about 3-4 offensive possessions. If the offense coverts more 3rd downs & extends more drives, then that limits the offensive possessions by the opposition. Less possessions by the opposition means less plays for the defense & less yardage & points given up.

Throw in the 3 turnovers by the offense in the opener & the end result is a clusterfrick of a game. The opener was story of 2012 New Orleans Saints season. You can go to any loss this season & the storyline is basically the same script.

Would the defense this past season have been bad with a more consistent offense? Yes. Would they have been historically bad in terms of yards allowed? No.



This post was edited on 1/2 at 2:14 pm


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Suntiger
USA Fan
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
20970 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

Would the defense this past season have been bad with a more consistent offense? Yes.


THIS. This is unacceptable.

I get the concept of defenses and offensive possession. I'm just wondering why you are so willing to turn a blind eye to how bad the defense is?

The NYJ, San Diego and Arizona were all last in offense this year, yet their defenses were ranked 8, 9 and 12 respectively.

quote:

It's a valid explanation as to why the defense gave up so much yardage.


If you are simply defending the mindboggling numbers, that's one thing. But to give this defense or Spags a pass because the offense (which was still one of the top offenses this year) was inconsistent is just turning a blind eye.

quote:

The defense was going to be below average regardless due to personnel, defense philosophy & injuries.


I've already said I agree that we need some better players. But we had basically the same players last year and we weren't this bad.


quote:

Ex. Game one against Washington, the offense went 2-11 on 3rd downs resulting the team losing the time of possession to the Redskins 39:10-25:50.


It works both ways. If the defense could ever get its sorry arse of the field, the offense would have more chances to sustain a drive instead of having to watch the defense get run all over.

This defense gets scored on in short spurts and long spurts alike. Regardless of what the offense is doing.

Remember when the Saints had scoring drives against the Giants of 14 plays for 81 yards in 5:44, 8 plays for 67 yards in 4:06 and 6 plays for 68 yards in 3:09? What happened to the defense then?

Remember that one time when Romo passed to Dez Bryant for 58 yards? That took 3 plays to go 74 yards in 1:28. Then Dallas had that 5 play drive for 80 yards in 1:10 and then turned right around and drove 64 yards in 1:14 to tie the game up.

In that game the Saints had 5 scoring drives of 226 yards and held the ball for 42 minutes. 42 MINUTES!!!

How about that opening play of the second quarter against Carolina where they went 3 plays for 82 yards in 1:12? And then latter they went 8 plays for 80 yards in 4:15 then in the same quarter went 80 yards in 4 plays in 1:57? Why can't the defense get off the field?






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BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1808 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

THIS. This is unacceptable.

I get the concept of defenses and offensive possession. I'm just wondering why you are so willing to turn a blind eye to how bad the defense is?


First of all, what we saw this year was a snowball effect of poor defensive draft picks over the years, a change from a simple to complex defensive scheme & a coaching staff that was stretched thin because of punishments from the bountygate BS.

I can't see how you or anyone else can view this past season in a normal light following the unprecedented events this season was played under. Everyone that views this past season as a "normal" season needs to recognize that this season was far from normal. Even the months during the draft, OTA's, mini camp, training camp & preseason weren't normal. It's foolish to realistically try to judge this season because of this being the first ever season a team played under these types of sanctions. There is no precedent to form an honest comparison to.

It was obvious early in the season that the team as a whole had issues. It was even more obvious that there was a serious lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball as well a lack of cerebral type players. Throughout the season, it was a given that every game there would be some player out of position because they didn't know their assignment in whatever defensive set that was called in the huddle. Again, that goes to the type of defensive players that has been drafted the last several years. I don't see how many expect Spags to make chicken salad out of chicken shite. Until there is an upgrade of talent on defense,the results will be the same no matter who the coordinator is.


quote:

The NYJ, San Diego and Arizona were all last in offense this year, yet their defenses were ranked 8, 9 and 12 respectively.


You just listed teams with FAR more defensive talent then the Saints currently have on that side of the ball. Those teams are built to hold up better defensively personnel wise hence the better defensive rankings.

quote:

If you are simply defending the mindboggling numbers, that's one thing.


That's all I have been doing. Where in this thread have I said the defense was good? I said that at times they have played outstanding redzone defense & they put up some quality interception numbers this season.

quote:

But we had basically the same players last year and we weren't this bad.


The defense in '11 was bad but they played with an offense that controlled the tempo & pace of games. Even with all the big yardage numbers this season, the offense never controlled pace or tempo. Subpar defense aside, the team still went 13-3 & won a home playoff game. The difference this season is that the offense didn't have Payton as play caller to offset the defencies on defense.

All the season did for me was open my eyes to how great of a coach & offensive mind Payton is. I already knew but his absence really drove the point home with me.

quote:

Why can't the defense get off the field?


I posted some of the key defensive stops about 2 pages ago in this thread. I'm not going to repost the same things over & over again.

It sounds like you are living in a fantasy world of wanting a high scoring, explosive offense & hard hitting, game changing defense. Well I'm sorry to break the news to you but in this salary cap area its almost impossible for that to be done. Teams are either going built heavily either way. The Saints are an offensively built team. This team can win with an average defense & had done so 3 straight seasons up until this one. Under a Payton coached offense, the recipe for success by the defense is key stops at crucial moments in the game sprinkled in with a few turnovers. We got that several times this year only for the offense not to come through & the team loses a one score game. I'm fully confident that with a Payton led team, this squad reaches double digit wins as long as the defense gets a few stops & creates a few turnovers.







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