Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS - Page 148 - TigerDroppings.com

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glassman
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

There may be lemon cakes in the near future.


Pics.

ETA: Lamprey pie



This post was edited on 12/25 at 3:36 pm


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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Not sure what kinda poison would last 2-3 days and show no issues to Tywin's health, the timing just doesn't match up for the Red viper to have poisoned him really.


For me, the fact that he was on the can while a whore was in his bed, and the whole mentioning how much his corpse stunk is enough evidence that something dubious happened to him.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Yea jaime Lannister has seen more than any mans share of death and even he acknowledged it as odd





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Shiftyplus1
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Wouldn't he have seemed ill when Tyrion was talking to him though? If there are 2 rooms, and he's not in the first room, reason dictates he's in the other.





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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


There were only about three sentences spoken in that exchange and Tyrion wasn't exactly in a frame of mind conducive of determining Tywins health. I don't look too far into Tyrions knowing of which room Tywin would be in, I think all the clues lie within the time period that Tywin was laying in state. If Tyrion knew Tywin had been poisoned we would know it as well





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corndeaux
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

For me, the fact that he was on the can while a whore was in his bed, 


Pump and dump, Kingpin style.

quote:

and the whole mentioning how much his corpse stunk is enough evidence that something dubious happened to him


I could maybe see that. I don't buy the Viper poisoning him with just Tywin and Kevan in the room. Tywin knew how dangerous he was and certainly would have been cautious.

I think it's more of a statement about how we all end up the same. As regal as Tywin was in life, in death he's just another foul corpse.






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SetTheMood
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I think it's more of a statement about how we all end up the same. As regal as Tywin was in life, in death he's just another foul corpse.


I agree with this. I think it was GRRM juxtaposing Tywin's rigid golden persona with the stark reality of malodorous death. Plus, I don't see what would be gained with a belated reveal that he was poisoned. Everyone knows Kings Landing is a treacherous place, one filled with generations of grudges and vendettas.






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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I agree it could be just a statement about mortality...but having wacky theories are more fun:

Tywin was poisoned, but not by the Red Viper.

1. Kevan

as he was at the meeting mentioned earlier(on purpose, to place suspicion on RV) and was trying to frame the RV (vengeance for Dorne)for the poisoning. Kevan's motive? He was a second son, jealousy, a desire to be Master of The Rock..(pick one).my fav was all of the above, and because of them, he was in league with Varys, one of his "lil birds" even...

but that theory died when Varys had him killed.

Or did it? who was it really that was behind the attempt on Tyrion at Blackwater? Jaime can inherit nothing, as a knight of KG...Cersei and her line can't, only heir left would be Tyrion. Kevan's character never really showed any evidence of betrayal or disloyalty...and that may have been by design...the attempt on Tyrion HAD to come before Tywin, or it would look very suspicious, the new heir dying so quickly behind the father. Kevan may have had designs on this all along...

That was my first theory,but not my favorite:

2. Tysha

From the moment we meet her, she is attempting to use a Lannister soldier to get proximal to Tywin, her target. She unexpectedly ends up with Tyrion, which seems to fit her plans well, until she realizes they are never in the same place at the same time...so she bides her time as best she can...in spite of herself, old feelings return for Tyrion and she nearly calls off her mission, begging Tyrion to just run away with her, leave all this (the game) behind and start anew as nobodys...then Tywin returns to KL in time for Blackwater, Tyrion is almost killed, then removed from power, then married...then accused. Unable to use Tyrion as a tool any longer, she makes her move, but must be careful with Tywin...can give him no reason to think she would protect Tyrion...cannot send word to him or risk her own death (or - she smugly enjoys letting Tyrion feel the betrayal intentionally, an added bonus for her) Finally, she gets Tywin alone and poisons him with something very slow yet very lethal (say...something that once ingested would prevent the intestines from absorbing nutrition...causing slow, miserable starvation...a side-effect would be food rotting in the bowels instead of broken down for absorption) to prolong his suffering over days or weeks...a day of suffering for every silver stag...

Then enter Tyrion to spoil that plan...and to end her own life, never knowing who she really was.


Or maybe Tywin's excrement was just THAT offensive, hence Tyrion knowing he was in the shitter. He knew that smell very well, having worked the sewers at The Rock.






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corndeaux
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Kevan


If there was poison, this is who I would have guessed.

The Varys angle works for me too.






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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Kevan




If there was poison, this is who I would have guessed.


I think if Kevin wanted power, he could have taken it. He turned down being the hand to help his son get on his feat in Darry. I know they also had the part where he gave Cersei an ultimatum, but he still could've had the power of being hand. I know it's GRRM's world of backstabbing and betrayals, but I think he loved his brother too much to poison him.






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BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Tywin was poisoned


I don't know that he was necessarily poisoned. I think he just wasn't "prepared" properly. Maybe even out of disrespect.

That said, if I have to put my money on anyone poisoning Tywin Lannister I wouldn't be surprised if a Tyrell was behind it.






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Shiftyplus1
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


He took a crossbow bolt to his guts. His juices went everywhere, filling all cavities in his body. That's why he stunk. Kevan would never poison Tywin. There is nothing to support him wanting his bro dead, and numerous supporting bits that cement Kevan's loyalty to Tywin.





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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I felt like GRRM battering us over the head with how much his corpse stunk had to be for more of a reason than just to show us that he isn't all that and a bag of potato chips. It could be a red herring, but I think there is some backstory to it.

ETA: Just found this comprehensive list of points that has made me believe Tywin was poisoned.

LINK



This post was edited on 12/27 at 3:43 pm


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Gugich22
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Damn...I didn't believe the Tywin being poisoned theory to be true at first but that seems like a whole lot of evidence to support a case for it.





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BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

He took a crossbow bolt to his guts. His juices went everywhere, filling all cavities in his body. That's why he stunk. Kevan would never poison Tywin. There is nothing to support him wanting his bro dead, and numerous supporting bits that cement Kevan's loyalty to Tywin.



I can agree with Kevan but I have to disagree on the rest.

I do think it's valid to point out that no one was complaining about Jon Arryn's stench after he was legitimately poisoned. Which makes me think it's far less about being poisoned and more about he just wasn't prepped properly (or sat "out" for too long before discovered).






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Gugich22
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I do think it's valid to point out that no one was complaining about Jon Arryn's stench after he was legitimately poisoned. Which makes me think it's far less about being poisoned and more about he just wasn't prepped properly (or sat "out" for too long before discovered).


But you can't hold Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister in the same regard. I think GRRM was making it obvious that Tywin was not above anyone else. He was just a man.






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BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

But you can't hold Jon Arryn and Tywin Lannister in the same regard. I think GRRM was making it obvious that Tywin was not above anyone else. He was just a man.



Since you asked.

I agree with the notion that it was about Tywin not being above anyone else. I'm just saying that it would make sense if both were poisoned that both would "rot" in a similar fashion. I don't think Tywin was poisoned.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

He took a crossbow bolt to his guts. His juices went everywhere, filling all cavities in his body. That's why he stunk. Kevan would never poison Tywin. There is nothing to support him wanting his bro dead, and numerous supporting bits that cement Kevan's loyalty


Although hoe do you explain Jaime's thoughts? Here is the lord commander of the Kingsguard, a man who has built his life around death, and even he thinks Tywins stench is abnormal. Now granted his first thought goes towards an improper preparation of the body but then again what does a knight know about poison?






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Tiger Voodoo
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I'm just saying that it would make sense if both were poisoned that both would "rot" in a similar fashion.



Nah different poisons would have different effects on the body.

The type of poison they're talking about that locks up his bowels could be particularly toxic to the insides of the victim I would guess.

And the link with Viper's comments to Tyrion is what has me convinced.

Also, I didn't think much of it at the time but GRRM did spend a ton of time talking about how horrible the smell was just to say Tywin was just like anyone else in death. Hell, Tyrion's thought about him not, in the end, shitting gold was all you needed to make that thought stick with the reader. It's probably one of the top 2 or 3 lines from the whole series.

And Viper's overall want to kill not just Clegane but "the man that spoke the words" makes it clear in my mind. Viper was altogether way too much of a badass to only appear in a few chapters and whose shining moment came in a fight in which although his opponent did eventually die, he got has face smashed to pulp.

His lasting legacy will be the insult he ravaged upon Tywin's body and House Lannister.

Just not sure why GRRM is taking so long to reveal it, and how he'll reveal it at this point.






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corndeaux
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


The linked passages dont prove anything. What isnt said when Doran has his Come to Jesus chat with the Sand Snakes indicates that this was not some master plan.

:nb4viperactedalone:






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