Just got back from seeing Django Unchained | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

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Dire Wolf
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained



Spoilers

quote:

However, the dining room scene did deliver. After the handshake it becomes predictable, Django ends up killing everyone and rides off with the girl. The first half of the film seemed more intriguing and engaging.


I felt it should have ended with django getting out with girl after the dinner scene. Him rerun to the camp seemed unnecessary and only added for the great Sam jack scene plus QT getting air time







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beauchristopher
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


death proof blows, but to each their own whoever enjoys it





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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


let me also add i didn't like the cinematography in django. it seemed very "close"

that's just nitpicky, though. personal preference, but one thing that's great about westerns of yesteryear were the scope of the cinematography. i just felt it was lacking for an homage to the genre






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beauchristopher
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


how can a movie with pitt have better acting than a movie with leonardo



i enjoy both tho. i agree the dvd release with be even better.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

how can a movie with pitt have better acting than a movie with leonardo

fwiw, the 2 problems with IB are

1. the ending
2. the basterds






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Rittdog
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

and waltz was a lot better in IB, plus there were great performances by the french scarlet jo and diane kruger

there wasn't anything like that in django, imho. jamie fox just was mean and black and shultz was unremarkable. leo was pretty good, though



Wow. Foxx performance was very nuanced. He had the biggest character of any character. By the end he was displaying his intelligence in a "King Shultz" manner in order to get freedom from the slavers. And just black? lol. no need for comment there.

Shultz was incredible. "Almost" as good as Hans Lada. He's just more zany, he's so caught in the most elaborate things that it leads to his breakdown at the end. He's use to having the upper hand. He's use to control. The 1st half of the movie Shultz character was fantastic. By the 2nd half he was still great, but conflicted. After warning Django not to lose his emotions...he lost his...because Shultz was never "built" for this type of environment.
quote:

jackson was a one-trick pony who got old after the initial scene (which was hilarious)



What was Brad Pitt? Also...you completely missed the point of Jackson's character. He was "putting on" for the petulant child in Candy in front of everybody. Jackson was the calculated brains behind Candyland. Great turn in acting for Jackson
quote:

they were forced and repetitive, like samuel j jackson's character



Eh..your opinion. I thought they were well executed to let us know the mind of King Shultz...which brings me to my next point..
quote:


but there was no real development to that point. it was like a 180 all of a sudden that created conflict

shultz had issues with slavery and then after doing a good thing just goes, "frick it i'm going to die here making a moral point in front of people who won't give a shit, instead of leaving and coming back to kill them later." like i said, it was just forced


Shultz blew it the minute he started antagonizing Candy. Shultz made a mistake. He was told by the lawyer what gets on Calvin's nerves. It was his "Goodbye/frick you" He warned Django about the exact same thing he fell victim for.

Django doesnt "Fall out of character" because he's use to it. As he tells Candy when they kill the guy with the dogs. He's use to that world. King is not. King was traumatized from that incident and even tried to pay off Candy in order to save the guy. Foxx wouldnt let it happen because it would be "out of character"

What we are seeing from the 1st half of the movie...SHULTZ is in control. The 2nd half of the movie exposes Shultz to a world where there was no control. He is the one who caves in on his emotions...not Django. Thats why despite all the terrible shite that happens....Django never pulls his weapon. After insulting Candy...and Candy insisting on shaking his hand in Shultz mind it was going one of two ways. He can shake his hand, continue his "Losing to Candy", let this evil POS go and they all leave. Or he knows he messed up by antagonizing Candy and they wont let him leave alive anymore. So he took his "one shot" and killed the guy .

Thus the line "I couldnt help myself"





Then sets up the Broohilda(sp) saving by Seigfried(sp) story that he told Django early on (story wise)





This post was edited on 12/26 at 6:48 pm


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Hugo Stiglitz
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

how can a movie with pitt have better acting than a movie with leonardo

The supporting cast in IB was better by far.

Think about the intense scene at the table in the restaurant with Landa, Goebbels, and the cinema owner.


Also Leonardo is somewhat overrated as an actor but was exceptional in Django.







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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

He had the biggest character of any character. By the end he was displaying his intelligence in a "King Shultz" manner in order to get freedom from the slavers.

this change occurred in like 3 scenes and a montage

based on my guess about the flashback at the end, this chunk was SEVERELY cut out of the movie

and he already was doing similar things when they were at don johnson's plantation


quote:

Shultz was incredible. "Almost" as good as Hans Lada. He's just more zany, he's so caught in the most elaborate things that it leads to his breakdown at the end. He's use to having the upper hand. He's use to control. The 1st half of the movie Shultz character was fantastic. By the 2nd half he was still great, but conflicted. After warning Django not to lose his emotions...he lost his...because Shultz was never "built" for this type of environment.

i think a lot of this is filling in gaps that you want to believe in more than what we actually see on screen

quote:

What was Brad Pitt?

i didn't bring him up in the good acting part of IB

quote:

Shultz blew it the minute he started antagonizing Candy. Shultz made a mistake. He was told by the lawyer what gets on Calvin's nerves. It was his "Goodbye/frick you" He warned Django about the exact same thing he fell victim for.

Django doesnt "Fall out of character" because he's use to it. As he tells Candy when they kill the guy with the dogs. He's use to that world. King is not. King was traumatized from that incident and even tried to pay off Candy in order to save the guy. Foxx wouldnt let it happen because it would be "out of character"

and yet the doc does just fine for half of the movie without any effects and then when it's dramatically suitable, he has an emotional breakdown. you can have it one way or the other, but not both. it was a forced change and not real characterization. i mean hell the flashbacks alone were cheap in this regard







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JS87
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


I think that this film quite possibly might have set the record for the amount of times nigg** was said





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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

I think that this film quite possibly might have set the record for the amount of times nigg** was said

when i first heard QT was making a revenge-slave flick i joked that he was going to use the vehicle to say the n-word the most times he could. dude LOVES using the n-word as sort of a "hey i'm post-modern, i can do this' way






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

Think about the intense scene at the table in the restaurant with Landa, Goebbels, and the cinema owner.

underrated arse scene






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Carson123987
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

and yet the doc does just fine for half of the movie without any effects and then when it's dramatically suitable, he has an emotional breakdown. you can have it one way or the other, but not both. it was a forced change and not real characterization. i mean hell the flashbacks alone were cheap in this regard


Motherfrickin this






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Baloo
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

i think a lot of this is filling in gaps that you want to believe in more than what we actually see on screen

I disagree. There is a lot of Hans in Schultz's character, and I think that is incredibly intentional. What we saw as psychotic and evil in a Nazi is suddenly zany and comedic in a character we like. I think that's an intentional choice by Tarantino and Waltz, showing how perspective changes things -- and to show Schultz is not a whimsical character. We walk into this movie with the baggage of IB. Tarantino has always played on his audience's knowledge of his films. I see no reason why he would stop now.

That said, given his nature, he is a killer, not a slaver or torturer. And the dog scene's impact on Schultz cannot be understated. It's why we cut back to it later in the film. It has shaken Schultz to his core. He is a man of violence and also one who exploits the law to his advantage. But this is an evil far beyond even him. It's not just a man was torn apart by dogs, it's that it was completely legal and totally unneccessary. He can morally justify killing criminals, but he cannot justify killing and torturing the innocent. It is the bridge too far.

Even then, he's willing to pay the cash and just get out of there, but it's when Candie pushes the point and demands he shake his nad. To treat him as a gentleman and an equal. It is something he cannot abide. And so he steps outside the law, while regaining a moral good. He kills criminals -- the deserving. And here is a man even more vile, so he must be killed as well.


As for Stephen... I can't believe anyone would call Jackson's performance one note. Seriously, you forsaw the scene with him sitting in the library swirling brandy in the snifter? Because I sure as hell didn't. There's being the brains behind the operation, and then there's what Stephen was.

I don't think this was quite as good as Basterds, which I think was Tarantino's masterpiece. But for a guy five years ago I thought had completely lost his way as a director, I think Tarantino's "middle period" is shaping up to be the equal of any man's peak. He is using the slick form of his early years to a more substantial purpose now. He's living up to all of his early promise.

It just took him 20 years to get there. Bravo. This movie is amazing.






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Rittdog
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

i think a lot of this is filling in gaps that you want to believe in more than what we actually see on screen



Actually Tarantino brought this up back in the summer
Could find the interview for it...but I'd have to look a while. It was always meant for Shultz to be flaymoyent and in charge...until he witnesses how shite was done in Mississippi. I heard the interview...then when I saw the movie...it made sense. Also talked about it a pre screening. But I'll concede without one knowing that..I can get where you're coming from.
quote:

and yet the doc does just fine for half of the movie without any effects and then when it's dramatically suitable, he has an emotional breakdown. you can have it one way or the other, but not both. it was a forced change and not real characterization. i mean hell the flashbacks alone were cheap in this regard



Again...kind of pointed that out already. But to add..

Isnt possible that he had NO PROBLEM killing guys who were murderers (wanted dead or alive), but upon seeing men savagely killed with hammers, a guy ripped to shreds by dogs (he couldnt save because it was against his character) that his moral fibers would change. Again...the scene with Jamie/Dicaprio about sums it up. "Your boss is kinda green aint he?"

"He's not use to Americans like I am."


Again..I think you'll have a favorable view of it time....but maybe not. To each its own.






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Rittdog
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

I disagree. There is a lot of Hans in Schultz's character, and I think that is incredibly intentional. What we saw as psychotic and evil in a Nazi is suddenly zany and comedic in a character we like. I think that's an intentional choice by Tarantino and Waltz, showing how perspective changes things -- and to show Schultz is not a whimsical character. We walk into this movie with the baggage of IB. Tarantino has always played on his audience's knowledge of his films. I see no reason why he would stop now.

That said, given his nature, he is a killer, not a slaver or torturer. And the dog scene's impact on Schultz cannot be understated. It's why we cut back to it later in the film. It has shaken Schultz to his core. He is a man of violence and also one who exploits the law to his advantage. But this is an evil far beyond even him. It's not just a man was torn apart by dogs, it's that it was completely legal and totally unneccessary. He can morally justify killing criminals, but he cannot justify killing and torturing the innocent. It is the bridge too far.

Even then, he's willing to pay the cash and just get out of there, but it's when Candie pushes the point and demands he shake his nad. To treat him as a gentleman and an equal. It is something he cannot abide. And so he steps outside the law, while regaining a moral good. He kills criminals -- the deserving. And here is a man even more vile, so he must be killed as well.


As for Stephen... I can't believe anyone would call Jackson's performance one note. Seriously, you forsaw the scene with him sitting in the library swirling brandy in the snifter? Because I sure as hell didn't. There's being the brains behind the operation, and then there's what Stephen was.

I don't think this was quite as good as Basterds, which I think was Tarantino's masterpiece. But for a guy five years ago I thought had completely lost his way as a director, I think Tarantino's "middle period" is shaping up to be the equal of any man's peak. He is using the slick form of his early years to a more substantial purpose now. He's living up to all of his early promise.

It just took him 20 years to get there. Bravo. This movie is amazing.
:bow: :bow:






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Rittdog
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


From another board to add to the discussion about Stephen not being one note and other points.

quote:

The point which was aptly conveyed in several scenes that apparently went over your head, is that the slaves were attuned to the inner lives of the other slaves as well as to the lives of whites, especially if they lived in the big house. Whites were not attuned to the slaves. They were too busy assuming their own superiority (the long scene about the dimples at the back of the skull).. They thought they knew but they didnt. The other part of it was that some slaves were able to fool and manipuate their owners by using their feelings of superiority against them. Since blacks were so dumb and stupid it wouldn't occur to the whites they were actually being played.

They discussed their business right in front of the slaves. The slaves acted and revealed only that which whites expected and the minimum of what they needed to know. The uncle tom character of Sam (who was depicted as being trusted enough and literate enough to tend the books) showed that some blacks learned to curry favor with their owners and therefore make an easier life for themseleves. A lot of things he did was to get over. The laughing at every joke, negative statements about the other slaves, seemingly subjegating himself to the masters. He even got away with insulting them right their faces with a laugh. His contempt for whites and his boss was conveyed when he came to tell DJango what fate lay awaitiing him. He basically said the whites were too stupid to figure out what to do with him. He interjected several times suggestions which they ignored because what would some dumb slave know, until the sister came up with the exact idea he had fed the whites.

The other scene which conveyed his feelings of superiority over his masters was when he threw down his cane, stood up straight, walked straight and started talking with less of an "ignorant" way of speaking during the last scenes when Django returned for revenge. In other words he had played up his age and fragilities to his bosses to get away with a lot and make a better life for himself. Some of his (and others like him) comtempt for the other slaves was real because he felt they were stupid to keep trying to escape only to be brought back and be beaten over and over. He felt he had figured out how best to cope and make the best of a bad deal as the other slaves had not. He got to live in the big house, eat the better food, hear all the gossip and what whites folks were up to, and in time even get to insult the whites, and feel superior to them.

For me, the reveal was a major scene and many scenes had been played to build that scene up and to reflect back on that scene. He could actually tell his white boss to meet him in the library. Sit there and sip the same liquor has his owner as and equal and his boss didn't even notice it. And, yes, he was willing to do what he needed (including throwing his own people under the bus) to keep his position. No different than a corporate raider or any captain of industry in this day and age. In other words he was ruthless.





This post was edited on 12/26 at 7:20 pm


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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

That said, given his nature, he is a killer, not a slaver or torturer. And the dog scene's impact on Schultz cannot be understated. It's why we cut back to it later in the film. It has shaken Schultz to his core. He is a man of violence and also one who exploits the law to his advantage. But this is an evil far beyond even him. It's not just a man was torn apart by dogs, it's that it was completely legal and totally unneccessary. He can morally justify killing criminals, but he cannot justify killing and torturing the innocent. It is the bridge too far.

but for how shaken he was and for how profound of an effect it had on him, it didn't seem to bug him much until it was dramatically suitable. he still executed the plan to a T, and the only frickup was by django's wife (not shultz)

quote:

Seriously, you forsaw the scene with him sitting in the library swirling brandy in the snifter? Because I sure as hell didn't. There's being the brains behind the operation, and then there's what Stephen was.

by that point in time it was already clear that candie was an idiot and stephen was the HNIC (house negro in charge). from his introduction until his death, nothing changed in that regard

quote:

He is using the slick form of his early years to a more substantial purpose now.

i don't think this movie was shot very slick and he's becoming preachy and lost direction. QT is not a person who can do preachy, and i think the writing of this movie showed that. hell the interspliced absurd comedy showed he wasn't comfortable with going "all in"






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flvelo12
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


SPOILERS

quote:

After the handshake it becomes predictable, Django ends up killing everyone and rides off with the girl. The first half of the film seemed more intriguing and engaging.


Could not agree more. The script up to that point was on par with the best Tarantino has ever written. The "third" act seemed forced and lost all of outstanding nuances of the film to that point. Still enjoyed it. Waltz, DiCaprio and Foxx were all excellent.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

Could find the interview for it...but I'd have to look a while. It was always meant for Shultz to be flaymoyent and in charge...until he witnesses how shite was done in Mississippi. I heard the interview...then when I saw the movie...it made sense.

my second guess was that you read the script online. QT always puts narrative in the script that he leaves out of actual shooting

quote:

Isnt possible that he had NO PROBLEM killing guys who were murderers (wanted dead or alive), but upon seeing men savagely killed with hammers, a guy ripped to shreds by dogs (he couldnt save because it was against his character) that his moral fibers would change.

it didn't seem to affect him, though. and then he just falls apart when he could get revenge later

he maintains his cool, calm, and collected demeanor from the "dog scene" THROUGH the caper, even when it goes to shit, and then he just dissolves into irrational morality? no way man, no way

if you told me that shultz and django left as victors overcoming all odds and then pulled a "wild bunch" then i'd completely believe it






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Just got back from seeing Django Unchained


quote:

The "third" act seemed forced and lost all of outstanding nuances of the film to that point.

yeah it's 2 movies in a row that QT didn't seem to know how to end it so he basically just said "frick it"






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