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HempHead 
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:52 am to TrueTiger)
quote:
What foundations do you find suitable?
The basic foundation is the non-aggression principle. From this axiom, it follows that one may not justifiably initiate violence against another. Without initiated coercion or violence, there is no state.
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Blue Velvet 
Colorado State Fan
Venice, LA
Member since Nov 2009
12739 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:55 am to TrueTiger)
quote:
Unlike you I do no think theft is a suitable foundation for a way of life.
quote:
This is a hasty generalization.
quote:
I don't mind taxes
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Zach 
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55842 posts
 Online
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:58 am to TrueTiger)
quote:
This is a hasty generalization.
What makes it 'hasty?' Maybe he thought about it for a long time.
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PillageUrVillage
LSU Fan
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
1893 posts
Online
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:02 pm to Zach)
Would a sales tax be considered theft?
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:05 pm to PillageUrVillage)
Yes. If there are folks willing to put you in jail for not paying their protection, er tax, money, then it is a form of thievery.
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crawdaddy52 
Vanderbilt Fan
Member since Dec 2010
582 posts
Online
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:24 pm to HempHead)
Would being kicked out of one's parents basement render the majority of the posters on this thread, homeless?
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:29 pm to crawdaddy52)
quote:
Would being kicked out of one's parents basement render the majority of the posters on this thread, homeless?
I know I would be SO dead.
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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Republic of West Florida
Member since Sep 2004
3182 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:38 pm to Zach)
Stringing a couple of snippets together and concluding that I think theft is a foundation for government is a hasty generalization.
I've done it myself. The nature of bulletin board discussion is that it tends to be dosed out in small bits. Instant refinements, enhancements and depth don't happen easily like they would if we were all personally in a room together.
What a scene that would be. 
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:41 pm to TrueTiger)
quote:
I've done it myself. The nature of bulletin board discussion is that it tends to be dosed out in small bits. Instant refinements, enhancements and depth don't happen easily like they would if we were all personally in a room together.
Completely understood, and agreed.
However, to suggest that government is based on theft is not all that hasty. Do you know of any other way for a state to exist than to confiscate from private individuals?
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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Republic of West Florida
Member since Sep 2004
3182 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:52 pm to HempHead)
quote:
Do you know of any other way for a state to exist than to confiscate from private individuals?
Point taken. It seems that the compromise is that the taxes should at least have some consent component. That will be tolerable for at least 51%, hopefully more, but somebody is going to feel violated.
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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55842 posts
Online
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:54 pm to TrueTiger)
quote:
The nature of bulletin board discussion is that it tends to be dosed out in small bits. Instant refinements, enhancements and depth don't happen easily like they would if we were all personally in a room together.
Ah, you have jogged an addled brain cell. I posted on this board many years ago that I viewed message board discussion visually as sitting in a lodge room. I was never in a lodge but my vision was from the U. of Okla. lounge in 1979. I was a guest. Lots of Mahogany.
Chairs are comfy and you sat low, crossed your legs at the knees and ordered a cocktail. I ordered a Martini. Then, we discussed the news of the day, philosophy and the degradation of the culture.
The only thing I hated about the scene back then was animal heads mounted on the wall.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:55 pm to TrueTiger)
quote:
It seems that the compromise is that the taxes should at least have some consent component.
What kind of tax can be consensual and voluntary?
quote:
That will be tolerable for at least 51%, hopefully more, but somebody is going to feel violated.
Do you think that having 51% aboard such a proposal makes it morally justifiable?
This post was edited on 12/12 at 12:57 pm
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
90567 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:05 pm to HempHead)
quote:
What kind of tax can be consensual and voluntary?
Let's have Harry Reid solve this conundrum for us
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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
15799 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:05 pm to HempHead)
quote:
However, to suggest that government is based on theft is not all that hasty. Do you know of any other way for a state to exist than to confiscate from private individuals?
And of course that is true - government taxation is de facto appropriating, through coercion, force or threat of force, resources from others, mainly its own citizens. If done by a private actor, the identical methods would be criminal.
Most rational people don't have a problem with taxing authority or the fact that taxes must be paid, probably by them, to fund government operations.
What happened is, since roughly the election of FDR, there has been little-to-no restraint placed on governmental spending at the federal level. In the wake of this spending, we have 4 or 5 generations of people with ZERO inkling there are non-governmental solutions to problems. Americans very paradoxically desire (and I use the Presidential elections of 2008 and 2012 as evidence) a huge federal government, but yet one that does not overreach and overtax (and I use election results, particularly House elections in 1994 and 2010 as evidence), and in fact, it has been argued that, collectively, the American electorate would be described, psychologically, as "bi-polar" on these issues.
The problem is the debt - if the US was relatively debt free right now, we could afford a whole host of, IMO, wrong-headed, counter-productive, meddling social engineering projects (to which we seem to be inextricably addicted). We aren't, and therefore we cannot afford to continue this governmental expansion.
Since we're going to do it any way - you just think we've endured confiscatory tax policy in the past.
This post was edited on 12/12 at 1:08 pm
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
90567 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:09 pm to Ace Midnight)
quote:
If done by a private actor, the identical methods would be criminal.
No doubt.
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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Venice, LA
Member since Nov 2009
12739 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:19 pm to Ace Midnight)
quote:
Most rational people don't have a problem with taxing authority
Are you insinuating that rationality is linked to the advocation of theft?
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10149 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:21 pm to Ace Midnight)
quote:
Most rational people don't have a problem with taxing authority or the fact that taxes must be paid, probably by them, to fund government operations.
Well I'm pretty irrational, and tend to think that government operations (all operations) could be provided by private individuals in a free market.
Why is it that the state is exempt from the moral quandaries that an individual faces when contemplating theft, murder, or kidnapping?
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1146 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:23 pm to tossedoff)
quote:
You should pay for what I want and I don't care about the provider as long as I get it.
My favorite part is that so many do not understand why the price of everything is so high. They say I cannot afford it so the government should buy it for everyone. THAT IS WHY IT IS UNAFFORDABLE.
See food, education and healthcare, etc...
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
90567 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:23 pm to HempHead)
We need protection from the state. Otherwise, other people could come here, take over, and start stealing from us.
Wait...
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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
63859 posts
| re: Have we become a "theft" society? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:27 pm to Gmorgan4982)
Your schtick has gotten old and stale.....
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