Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy? - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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jcole4lsu
Virginia Fan
The Kwisatz Haderach
Member since Nov 2007
26752 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

My primary concern is the vanishing middle class.

which is a myth per otto's link. top 50% has stayed steady, income adjusted.

what has happened is the top has gotten richer and the bottom get more handouts to appear richer.







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junkfunky
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2011
13331 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Also, the exponential growth of solar power and the reduction of costs.




I love this thought process. We're hurting the environment so we need to use solar panels. Wait, there's a couple trees in the way. frick em, this is good for the environment.

And seriously, if you think solar panels are close to viable you have to be trolling.






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
29052 posts
 Online 

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

No you don't believe in private property. If you believe that the government is entitled to your wealth, after you have paid your "fair share" of taxes, then you simply don't believe in private property, you believe that the government is entitled to take people's wealth. I bet you love property taxes as well.


I'm sorry if what I said was unclear or perhaps spread over multiple posts -

I'm NOT in favor of wealth AND income tax. IF I have to choose, I find a way to tax it at the wealth accumulation stage, rather than the "income earned" stage. NOT both.

At least property taxes are relatively transparent, but, no, I don't like paying a tax on real estate where I paid a transfer tax to acquire and if I turn a profit, pay a tax on that. If I use it for a home, why charge me a tax on that? (That is mainly a way for poor people, who do not own property subject to this tax, get other people to pay for their children's education). As always, there are exceptions - Texans complain about their horrific property taxes, but they have no state income tax, either. The tax man will get his, one way or another.

quote:

I agree that income taxes are probably the worst way to tax people, but taxing wealth is stealing private property.


I don't see a difference, in the "theft" metaphor, between "stealing" part of my income (which I worked for), versus "stealing" part of my wealth, which I may have worked for, may have won gambling or may have inherited.

quote:

I believe a consumption tax is probably the best way to address these issues.


If you are suggesting a national consumption tax, which replaces the current income tax scheme, I agree with you.






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austingator
Florida Fan
austin
Member since Jan 2009
5399 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Like usual this has turned into a whiny pissing match instead of answering my concern.

Why has the wealth of the middle and lower classes been depleted while corporate profits are soaring and the top 1% continue to accrue a greater % of our nations wealth?

This should be a legitimate concern for everyone, including conservatives.


I'm concerned about medicare reimbursement cuts to doctors, and increased payments to hospitals. That is an example of how you increase the wealth gap. Brought to you by guvmint as a strategy to "cut healthcare costs". Which is translated in good english to fuk the middle class, let them get chitty care with the poor, and let the wealthy fend for themselves. That is what big guvmint does.






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
10568 posts
 Online 

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


Of course disparity of wealth is problematic, 4P. Quality of life issue...and especially in a culture where *equality* is enshrined in Law.

Life's basics are key, minus the toys. Regardless, even those who are subsidized with the basics can go bad on the hand that feeds them, and themselves. "An idle mind is the devil's workshop"...and it's easy to fan the egalatarian flames of envy.

Read "Abundance" buddy; it'll perk you up.







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austingator
Florida Fan
austin
Member since Jan 2009
5399 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


Ace

I already paid taxes on the money I have (wealth). When does money actually become mine? I mean, if you tax it as income, and then are going to tax it as wealth, you are stealing what I earned and already paid taxes on. No? Same as the death tax. If I want to leave my hard earned, already taxed private property to my kids, why do they have to pay taxes again?

There is no belief in private property anymore. We can't even own a house anymore. You can pay it off, and still every year you have to pay your property taxes. It is stealing IMO.






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austingator
Florida Fan
austin
Member since Jan 2009
5399 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


nm we are on the same page I think





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Lookin4Par
Colorado State Fan
Boulder, CO
Member since Jun 2012
857 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Read "Abundance" buddy; it'll perk you up.


My favorite book of the year! Have it on hardback. Reading how to create a mind, now!






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22097 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?



quote:

But, from a fundamental standpoint if my choice is to levy taxation on people's income OR wealth, I would choose wealth.
Why do you want people to become poorer?






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
29052 posts
 Online 

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Ace

I already paid taxes on the money I have (wealth). When does money actually become mine? I mean, if you tax it as income, and then are going to tax it as wealth, you are stealing what I earned and already paid taxes on. No? Same as the death tax. If I want to leave my hard earned, already taxed private property to my kids, why do they have to pay taxes again?

There is no belief in private property anymore. We can't even own a house anymore. You can pay it off, and still every year you have to pay your property taxes. It is stealing IMO.


I think you have an argument in search of an opponent. I am a fiscal conservative. I want taxes to fund the government, rather than pursue dubious (at best) social engineering, wealth redistribution schemes, whatever. My problem is - the country's owners are the wealthy.

They dictate tax policy and are relatively immune to it because they employ legions of bankers, trust fund managers, lawyers, accountants, etc. to avoid this very policy that is imposed on the rest of us. I don't want you to be double/treble/quadruble taxed as we are becoming now - far from it.

This thread is about "wealth" discrepancy, whatever that is. IF that is the pressing concern (which I never indicated agreement), then wealth should be taxed INSTEAD of income. That's as clear as I can make my position. Perhaps I don't belong here.

The answer to wealth discrepancy CANNOT be income tax because middle income people use income to become wealthy - the more of that is taken at the front end, the harder it becomes to achieve wealth - rather than the other way around (Wealthy people never become middle-income due to income taxes).




This post was edited on 12/11 at 3:44 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22097 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

This is true, but in the case of the United States the statement that everyone's income is increasing is not true. Adjusted for inflation over the past 30 years it is only the top 10% whose income has gone up. Even in that group it is really only the top 1% who have seen significant increases. LINK
There's a serious problem with your "proof". It's AGI... not wealth.

Since it's income... Keep in mind in the last 30 years IRA/401K contributions and tax exempt medical benefits have all seen huge increases. Those are all pre-tax dollars that aren't included.









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austingator
Florida Fan
austin
Member since Jan 2009
5399 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


Sounds like we are concerned about similar things

I do have an objection to taxing wealth though, because I do believe I have a right to have private property and pass it on to my kids. I earned it legally, paid a lot of taxes, so I don't want to be taxed any more. Unlike our president, I do believe I pay my fair share.






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gatorsimz
Florida Fan
cafe risque
Member since Feb 2009
5346 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:


Why has the wealth of the middle and lower classes been depleted while corporate profits are soaring and the top 1% continue to accrue a greater % of our nations wealth?

This should be a legitimate concern for everyone, including conservatives.



It's not a concern to me. Why should it be a concern? I control my own destiny and have made good decisions in my life that will pay dividends in the future. I don't like the idea of collectivism when it comes to money. If somebody truly wants to become wealthy they will. If somebody is unhappy with the gap in wealth they should do something about instead of whining about how everything isn't fair.

The top 1% continue to accrue more wealth because they are more financially savvy and/or they have accountants/advisors to help them. The 1% can better adjust to economic and political changes, they are proactive. I'd argue lower-middle/lower class people are more reactive and consequently, more volatile to these changes. I see it every day, people living week to week with no foresight for what may happen a month or year down the road.









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MoreOrLes
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2008
16552 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Is the growing gap in wealth any reason for concern?


Consider the source for this comment

quote:

Those that have it wish to preserve and build it.


Damn those evil evil people. They didnt build that

quote:

At what point do we realize that the tipping point is near?


When its too late.

Growing disparity of wealth?

We as a country are dumb. Our ignorance is allowing us as citizens to be manipulated.

The problem is We spend way more than we take in. Period






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22097 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Thibodeaux and Boudreaux start in year 1 with $5000 each. So each have 50% of the wealth. Ten years later, Thibodeaux has 90% of the wealth. Is Boudreaux richer? Or poorer?
Since none of the Class Warriors want to answer, I'll do it for you...

The answer is DON'T KNOW.

It's entirely possible that after 10 years Boudreaux could have $100 and Thibodeaux could have $9,000. And Boudreaux would be much poorer.

But it's just as likely Thibodeaux could have $90,000 and Boudreax could have $10,000. The "wealth disparity" went from 50/50% to 90/10%... But Boudreaux... is actually TWO TIMES RICHER!

THIS IS WHY WEALTH DISPARITY IS NEVER A VALID MEASURE OF POVERTY

It is nothing more than a propagandist's tool crafted to make someone with increasing wealth believe they are poorer than they really are in order to justify stealing more from "the rich".

What YOU do with your time and how you conduct YOUR life has much more determination on your success than how much some "rich" person earns. STOP COUNTING OTHERs MONEY AND START USING YOUR OWN WISELY. No one ever got rich counting their neighbor's money.

Here's another hint... in an inflationary economy "the rich" will get richer faster than the poor just by virtue of time growth of money. Compound growth of a big number (the rich) will always be a steeper curve than compound growth of a small number. Simple parabolic growth.





This post was edited on 12/11 at 4:02 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22097 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

I control my own destiny and have made good decisions in my life that will pay dividends in the future.
You didn't build that.






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
29052 posts
 Online 

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Since none of the Class Warriors want to answer, I'll do it for you...

The answer is DON'T KNOW.

It's entirely possible that after 10 years Boudreaux could have $100 and Thibodeaux could have $9,000. And Boudreaux would be much poorer.


Another good point I have seen made (was it you TA?) - is - if you evenly distributed all of the wealth of the United States, perfectly evenly, today - by this time tomorrow, there would be haves and have nots.






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doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
5999 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

Please give your insights on if this growing disparity of wealth is a concern to you or not. Why or why not?


It's a huge concern simply because the more people pay income taxes, property taxes, cap gains taxes; the less likely the govt. will raise taxes and the more taxes will be assessed over a larger sample of the population.

My problem is not with people making too much money, my problem is with not enough people making money. My problem isn't with people owning big homes, it's with not enough people owning homes (or knowing that renters pay property tax too.

If there is a vibrant economy and reasonable rules and regulations are followed then society should prosper and they'd be less need for government care.

However, if people learn that the govt. will furnish you food, housing, and healthcare then there will be more people who decide not to become gainfully employed and who will be satisfied with living on what the government provides them.

Somewhere out there is a point when people will say what am I working for? They'll see their neighbor or relative doing fine without a job. They'll say screw this, and stay home and then get in line for the freebies.

I realize that this seems coarse and cruel, but look at society today. Unemployment keeps getting extended, food stamp roles have doubles, people sign up for free cell phones, free scooters, and now they are promised free healthcare.

I know there are millions who ignore the temptation to just give up and get in line for govt. help; but there are millions who become captive by this lifestyle and learn to accept it as the way things ought to be.

Obama, and the Congress (Rep. and Dems) have shown that they have no stomach to stop the subsidies, and to make people more independent. They want to keep the status quo, and at election time run against the other side, but look where this has gotten us.

And it's not just minorities, it's not just low wage earners; you have the govt. subsidizing corn so we can burn it up in our cars despite the harm it does to engines and the lower gas mileage it provides. You have loophopes for the rich (those earning money) and loopholes for the poor (who get rebates despite paying no taxes)and there are scammers and leeches out there who know how to access the govt. trough and tap into the billions of dollars the govt. has printed.

Hard work can still get you ahead. That's the good news; however, it is only going to make you more and more of a target as the govt. decides what you make or have accumulated is too much and because they have annointed themselves as the arbiter between fair and unfair tha they can and will take it from you.

Beware of big brother. He is public enemy number one.






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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
9954 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

At what point do we realize that the tipping point is near?


Isn't welfare the "protection money" paid out to keep the unwashed horde from rising up, taking stuff that belongs to the rich and then burning them out of their homes? Obama has got this covered for the near term, so write your check, and relax.






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Layabout
UNO Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
6543 posts

re: Any conservatives concerned with growing wealth discrepancy?


quote:

king of the anecdotal, eh?

Yes, in response to a sweeping generalization about the sterling qualities of the rich.






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