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TigerDice
LSU Fan
Canton, OH
Member since Nov 2012
258 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

From a mathematical and logical standpoint, the existence of illegal aliens is probable.


Fixed it for you.






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TxTiger82
LSU Fan
Madison, WI
Member since Sep 2004
22083 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


In order to be convincing you should include all SEC teams in your analysis and perform an ANOVA with Bonferonni post-hoc analyses.

Alternatively, you could do a multinomial regression but that is messier.

All a t-test tells you is that there is a significant difference between two groups. But of course your comparison is arbitrary.






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GumboPot
LSU Fan
Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2009
22465 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

In the mean time, I'm assuming you wouldn't have any objections to firing everyone in the SEC offices and moving the entire operation to say...New Orleans? I'm sure there are imminently qualified people residing there, and I promise not biased in the least.



this point deserves a boom






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TexasTiger1185
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2011
9225 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


Everyone going to continue to just brush over the fact that MissState has just as few penalties in the last 6 years?

I guess if it doesn't help your argument you wouldn't want to talk about it.






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guedeaux
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Jan 2008
10216 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

In order to be convincing you should include all SEC teams in your analysis and perform an ANOVA with Bonferonni post-hoc analyses.



frick Bonferonni. Tukey's is where its at, dawg.






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ridgeruner
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2007
690 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias








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Flame Salamander
LSU Fan
Texas Gulf
Member since Jan 2012
901 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


If you are going to study the effects of SEC
ref Bias toward Alabama then wouldn't you want to only study the SEC games that Alabama played in...ie compare Alabama's penalties/yards vs their SEC opponent for that day!!!

It wouldn't matter what penalities MS State had vs X opponent.




This post was edited on 12/5 at 12:21 pm


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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
10902 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

Everyone going to continue to just brush over the fact that MissState has just as few penalties in the last 6 years?


2007
BAMA #1
MSU #7

2008
BAMA #2
MSU #4 (tied)

2009
BAMA #3
MSU #5

2010
BAMA #1
MSU #4

2011
BAMA #1
MSU #3

2012
BAMA #1
MSU #4

Still looks like it's good to be the king if you ask me.






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txtiger21
LSU Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Jul 2010
245 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

Everyone going to continue to just brush over the fact that MissState has just as few penalties in the last 6 years?


I just started looking at these stats because as someone suggested (and I happened to agree) games involving only SEC refs would give a better indication of whether or not a bias existed. The best method of analysis would be to do a t-test (or a more complex test if your heart desires) between games bama played that were refereed by SEC vs Non-SEC refs and determine if there was a statistical difference, but even that would not be conclusive.

It only takes 1 ref on 1 play to have a bias that can completely change the outcome of a game. I'm sure some bias exists, but I really doubt it is as bad as some people make it out to be. Case and point: Eric Reid's interception last year.






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Patrick_Bateman
USA Fan
Member since Jan 2012
6868 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

TexasTiger1185
quote:

Still looks like it's good to be the king if you ask me.

Boom.






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Mohican
LSU Fan
On a lake in MS
Member since Nov 2012
1989 posts
 Online 

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

I want to point out that ARMY, NAVY, and AIR FORCE are also in the top 10 in least penalized teams every year! fricking Obama!

How in the world can a team that runs the ball 90% of the time like NAVY only be called for 28 penalties in 2011? They lead the nation just about every year in least penalized team. OHHH the HUMANITY of these CHEATERS!




I don't know, why don't you come up with a hypothesis to explain the discrepancy? There is an explanation, right?

So there should be an explanation to explain why Alabama is as well.


I know, for instance, that military personnel are trained to be robotic. They are trained to be the most disciplined people in the world. All those players have a military background. I would hypothesize that that background translates into all phases of their lives, including sports. I know because I have seen it personally with friends in the Marines.


Now, the point about Mississippi State is a good one, although, Mississippi State has been largely irrelevant and downright bad over the last 10 years. Perhaps there is a "mercy bias" to explain why they are consistently at the top of the rankings. I know Croom was a known disciplinarian, but we don't have an example of Croom coaching somewhere else to determine if it is bias or coaching. In the LSU-Bama case, we do.







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TexasTiger1185
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2011
9225 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

Still looks like it's good to be the king if you ask me.


You are not using the SEC chart that was posted on the page before. But good try.






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txtiger21
LSU Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Jul 2010
245 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

So there should be an explanation to explain why Alabama is as well.


Last I'm going to post on this, but you can probably come up with a pretty good reason why things changed in 2007 on your own. To me, this shows that there is no overall trend to call less penalties on bama.







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Flame Salamander
LSU Fan
Texas Gulf
Member since Jan 2012
901 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

To me, this shows that there is no overall trend to call less penalties on bama.


I don't know what you are looking at...but, from your chart it shows that bama has had an average of less penalties than their opponents for the last 8 years in a row.

Is this only data for SEC games?



This post was edited on 12/5 at 1:36 pm


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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
10902 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

You are not using the SEC chart that was posted on the page before.


I was, I just wasn't using only conference games.

Fine...only SEC games:

2012:
BAMA #4
MSU #5
LSU #12

2011:
BAMA #1
MSU #4
LSU #8

I love this season. BAMA averages 4 per game. The #2 team, Arky averages 5.1.

2010:
MSU #1
BAMA #2
LSU #6

Hooray! A season where BAMA is not in front of MSU, also!

2009:
MSU #1
BAMA #2
LSU #8

Two in a row...hot damn.

2008:
BAMA #1
MSU #2
LSU #7

Another fun one. BAMA leads the way with a mere 3.6 per game. State is #2 with nearly 2 more per game at 5.3 per.

2007:
BAMA #1
MSU #5
LSU #11

What it looks like to me...and this is if you go all the way back to 2003 (and likely beyond though I don't have the numbers in front of me) that if you want to find BAMA on this list, you should NEVER look anywhere near the bottom of the chart. Most other programs seem to swing back and forth around the chart. BAMA, regardless of their record or coach, are ALWAYS in the Top half of least penalized teams in the SEC.

Must simply be that culture of discipline that Bear instilled.






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Flame Salamander
LSU Fan
Texas Gulf
Member since Jan 2012
901 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


I'm not trying to be an stick in the mud, but data about what happens in other games that alabama doesn't play in has no proof on whether the crew working the alabama game is favoring them.

You should break all alabama games down (against SEC opponents) and see how the penalties/yards stack up. What percent of SEC games is alabama penalized less than their opponent?






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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
10902 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

I'm not trying to be an stick in the mud, but data about what happens in other games that alabama doesn't play in has no proof on whether the crew working the alabama game is favoring them.

You should break all alabama games down (against SEC opponents) and see how the penalties/yards stack up. What percent of SEC games is alabama penalized less than their opponent?


I'd love to see that...I'm just not your guy.

I'm open to explanations that seem to explain why, season after season, BAMA appears at or near the top of the SEC in terms of being the least penalized team in the conference, regardless of their record or coach. There may very well be a solid explanation for it...or maybe that fact alone isn't what we're making of it. Again...I'm open.

But to have people come here and simply assert that there is/could not be bias present is as absurd as those suggesting LSU pack up and move to the ACC.






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txtiger21
LSU Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Jul 2010
245 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

Is this only data for SEC games?


All games. But I think it helps to illustrate the point that a coach can change a program. Look at how drastic the change is in 2007 when little nicky comes into the picture. Theres also a decent change during Shula's years, but there aren't as many to look at.

If this bias was as great as some people are suggesting, wouldn't it have started before the last 8 years? Do the refs just love Saban?






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TexasTiger1185
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2011
9225 posts

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


It is interesting, I can agree with that.

I'm not going as far as a conspiracy or large bias.

And beyond that, I think we have proved that it doesn't even matter. If there is a bias, then we'd be better to just accept it and try and work through it. Things aren't going to change, let's just look at it as another road block on our way to a national championship.






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Mohican
LSU Fan
On a lake in MS
Member since Nov 2012
1989 posts
 Online 

re: Evidence Strongly Suggesting Alabama Officiating Bias


quote:

txtiger21



Good chart. Curious, could you do that same chart for LSU?

That would be interesting.






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