Zimmerman back in the news - Page 13 - TigerDroppings.com

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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
87623 posts
 Online 

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:


Once again, Zimmerman says he was walking back to the truck and he was attacked. His side of the story. How do any of us know if he followed the 911 operator's instructions to return to the truck.




How do you know he didnt"

quote:

Once again, there are always to sides to every story and, from my experience, those sides usually don't usually match up.



True, but if there is ample evidence to show he is lying, it will come out. I don't have any reason to believe he is either telling the truth or lying, so I haven't made up my mind. If he is telling the truth, he didn't commit any crime.







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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

How do any of us know if he followed the 911 operator's instructions to return to the truck.
because of where the confrontation occurred.

quote:

However, how many normal folks would have gotten out of the safety of their vehicles to follow somebody that looked suspicious?
True Story:

We have had a string of car "break-ins" in my neighborhood.

The local police told us it was young black teenagers, and they've done it before. This means that the people I need to be on the lookout for are black teens. Now am I looking for suspicious black teens because I hate blacks, or because it is reasonable to do so? Had the cops told me it was red-headed asians, I would be looking for them.

When I see a black teen around my house at night, I take notice. Everyone on my street is white or hispanic.

When I see a black teen hovering near mine or my neighbors house I walk outside to investigate, and decide whether to call the police.

If I saw them meandering into one of my neighbors driveways, I would probably go see what was going on, while calling the cops. If one of the teens were to attack me, and I shot him. . .how am I wrong?

These aren't directly analogous, but they speak to your "left the car" point. . .and the above are actual events.



This post was edited on 12/4 at 2:58 pm


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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
10096 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

If I saw them meandering into one of my neighbors driveways, I would probably go see what was going on, while calling the cops. If one of the teens were to attack me, and I shot him. . .how am I wrong?

Don't know how your castle doctrine reads but if I was in my yard or driveway then yeah, pop a cap. Going over to a neighbor's house I think I would leave that up to the cops.






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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

Going over to a neighbor's house I think I would leave that up to the cops.
My neighbors and I are pretty close.

We watch out for each other. I wouldn't go over there as an aggressor, only to observe/investigate.

That way I can ascertain whether the cops need to be called. If my neighbor was home, I'd just call their cell.



This post was edited on 12/4 at 3:07 pm


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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
10096 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


You would probably get off but I don't need $100K legal fees to do so. Neighbor can buy a whole lot of ipods and gps devices for that.





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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


I can't not do something to help my neighbors.





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C
LSU Fan
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Dec 2007
20369 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

video of George Zimmerman reenacting the fatal fight with Trayvon Martin


thanks for the video. Very sad.

So which parts of the video have proven to be false? Obviously trying to recall such an event in detail isn't going to be easy and may have errors, but this and his 9/11 tape that I remember seem fairly well aligned.






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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
10096 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

I can't not do something to help my neighbors.


I would feel the same way in my old neighborhood; not where I am now. Plus, these kids usually target vehicles that are left unlocked. You do that now a days then you deserve to have crap stolen.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

So which parts of the video have proven to be false?
None.






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olgoi khorkhoi
Bucknell Fan
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
2722 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

He felt threatened, any reasonable person would protect themselves.


He had a habit of feeling threatened. Like when he punched his bus driver.

I guess if you punch enough people, eventually you end up








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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


What disgusting human being would mock a teen that has been killed under such tragic circumstances?

I hope the kid in that pic got the shite beat out of him.






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mmtsanders
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2011
252 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

Following someone, even if dumb, is NOT instigating a PHYSICAL confrontation. Hell, if I walked up to you and said "hey, you're not from this neighborhood, what are you doing" and you got pissed and started to pummell me, I didn't fricking start that shite.


Your right, but how do you know for sure who pummelled who first? You may hit me first and I may still kick you butt.

quote:

We don't. But we DO KNOW beyond any reasonable doubt that Trayvon turned back because if he hadn't, he gets home in sub 30 seconds. PERIOD


You may be correct that he didn't go inside his house. What does that provide. There is no law that says you cannot be outside once returning from the store.

Zimmerman said he was walking back to his truck. Once again, his story.

Once again, what I consider self defense and what you consider self defense may differ.

quote:

Not many. But I do know some and when I was in Alaska, I saw it all the time.


Well maybe this is common in Alaska but I can honsetly say that where I live I have not seen this.

quote:

He never said he was going to "pursue" him. He simply wanted to be able to see where TM was going. He was at some distance and armed. Why would this be a big deal to him? Wouldn't be to me.


Well I think I would put my safety above all else. If I think somebody is "up to no good", "acting strange" or "looks suspicious", I would probably be thinking this person could possibly be a danger, so I definitely am not going to go following him, that the job of a police officer.

How so?

Well based on Mr. Zimmerman's description of the "suspicious" person and his "knowledge" that supposedly there had been some recent burglaries in the area, I would think he knowing should be aware of the "potential" danger for confronting this individual and should have just called 911 and made sure he was safe. He made a conscious choice to follow him.

What transpired after he got out of the truck, is anybody's guess. How did the young man know that Zimmerman was following him? I'm I to assume that this young man would approach anybody that was behind him for no apparent reason and pummell them? Was that his typical behavior? If he really only stepped out to go to the store and he realized that he was being followed, did he fell threatened? Did he turn around and go back just to ask Zimmerman why he was following him and see that Zimmerman had a gun and then felt that his life was in danger? What if he was only trying to defend himself? For me, those would be the questions running through my mind.

Now on the other hand, if a person is sitting in their house and someone breaks in then I believe you have a right to protect yourself and use deadly force if necessary and that would fit my definition of self defense.

I do get where you are coming from and I respect your take/view and understand that Florida has the "stand your ground" law. I just don't necessarily agree with it. This case seems to fit the very reasons that I don't agree with it. Mr. Zimmerman, by his own account, sole purpose for coming into contact with the other young man was because he thought he was "up to no good" and "looked" suspicious. By his own actions, he put himself in a situation to "feel" threatened. Which simply brings me back to the simple question, did the young man have a history of attacking people that followed behind him at any other time. If not, what provoked him to turn around and attack Mr. Zimmerman without any reason.







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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

Your right, but how do you know for sure who pummelled who first? You may hit me first and I may still kick you butt.
If Zimm fired first, Trayvon would have been a bit too dead to bash the frick out of George.

quote:

You may be correct that he didn't go inside his house.
That is obviously correct, and beyond dispute.

quote:

What does that provide.
That he chose to escalate the situation, rather than go inside and call the cops. . .which is what a normal human being does if they feel they are being followed by a scary guy.

quote:

Zimmerman said he was walking back to his truck. Once again, his story.
Which is supported by where the altercation occurred.

quote:

Once again, what I consider self defense and what you consider self defense may differ.
If the guy was beating Zimmerman into the pavement, what should he have done? Die?

quote:

Well I think I would put my safety above all else. If I think somebody is "up to no good", "acting strange" or "looks suspicious", I would probably be thinking this person could possibly be a danger, so I definitely am not going to go following him, that the job of a police officer.
I am not a scared little girl.

If I think someone is trying to rip off my neighbor, I feel obligated to do something. I would check it out before calling the police, though.

Zimm called the police sooner than I would have.






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mmtsanders
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2011
252 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

When I see a black teen hovering near mine or my neighbors house I walk outside to investigate, and decide whether to call the police. If I saw them meandering into one of my neighbors driveways, I would probably go see what was going on, while calling the cops. If one of the teens were to attack me, and I shot him. . .how am I wrong?


So you value your neighbor's property over your own life?

quote:

The local police told us it was young black teenagers, and they've done it before. This means that the people I need to be on the lookout for are black teens. Now am I looking for suspicious black teens because I hate blacks, or because it is reasonable to do so? Had the cops told me it was red-headed asians, I would be looking for them.


Certainly would be reasonable to be on the lookout. I don't know if it would be reasonable to feel the need to confront a person that is in a commission of a criminal act when you have no way of knowing their mindset. If they have a history of violence and have no regard to human life, would you put yourself in danger? Who is to say that they don't shoot you and kill you before you even get the chance to ask what they are doing?

Personally, I would think about my own life and what it would mean to my kids if I were to get killed by confronting somebody that is breaking the law.

I'll admit, I would not be trying to be a hero, I would simply pick up the phone, call 911 and let the cops do their job.

If your neighbor was home and shot them, I would say this was self defense if he preceived that he was in immediate danger. However, since they were not on YOUR property and was not posing an immediate danger to you or your family, my opinion would be that you knowing should have had reasonable common sense and tried to avoid placing yourself in harms way.









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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52218 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

So you value your neighbor's property over your own life?
I can handle myself.

quote:

Certainly would be reasonable to be on the lookout.
Sure.

quote:

I don't know if it would be reasonable to feel the need to confront a person that is in a commission of a criminal act when you have no way of knowing their mindset.
I wouldn't confront, so much as verify.

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If they have a history of violence and have no regard to human life
They would probably have better opportunities to make money than stealing sunglasses out of the odd unlocked vehicle.

quote:

Who is to say that they don't shoot you and kill you before you even get the chance to ask what they are doing?
Somebody capable of that level of violence, that close to my family?

You are answering your own question.

quote:

Personally, I would think about my own life and what it would mean to my kids if I were to get killed by confronting somebody that is breaking the law.
I carry.

quote:

ll admit, I would not be trying to be a hero, I would simply pick up the phone, call 911 and let the cops do their job.
I will not call 911, unless I know there is a reason.

If I witness a crime taking place, I will call on my cell.



Back to the point at hand:

If I go check it out, and the person attacks me, you are telling me I should not defend myself?



This post was edited on 12/4 at 11:15 pm


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mmtsanders
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2011
252 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

I am not a scared little girl. If I think someone is trying to rip off my neighbor, I feel obligated to do something. I would check it out before calling the police, though. Zimm called the police sooner than I would have


I din't say you was a scared little girl. Just because I would handle the situation differently, doesn't make me one either.

Once again, if I believed that you could have knowing avoided a potentially dangerous situation but choose not to and you shot somebody and hollered self defense, I probably would not buy it. I would have no way of knowing what you said or did when you confronted the "suspicious" person that could have made him feel threatened to just attack you. I don't know if I could come to any reasoning that would make me feel like your life was in grave danger and you had no other choice but to defend yourself because somebody suspicious was on your neighbor's property.

With that said, if you felt threatened by someone at your home, in your car, or even somebody that, without your knowledge, encountered you in public for no apparent reason and starting pounding you, I would have reason to believe that you felt that your life was in danger and had no other choice and act in self defense.






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olgoi khorkhoi
Bucknell Fan
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
2722 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

What disgusting human being would mock a teen that has been killed under such tragic circumstances?



Google image search "Travonning"

This wasn't two kids playing with dad's gun and one ends up dead. It wasn't that tragic.






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mmtsanders
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2011
252 posts

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

Back to the point at hand: If I go check it out, and the person attacks me, you are telling me I should not defend myself?


Back to the point at hand: If you were in your house and you hear an unusual noise, your grab your gun because you think that somebody might be breaking in your house (you don't know for sure, it is just a thought), it is an intruder. Immediately you feel threatened and should protect yourself. This to me would be self defense.

You see a person that on the street or at your neighbor's house that you think "looks" suspicious. Do you feel immediately "threatened" and afraid for your life? You grad a gun to go investigate this "suspicious" person. You shoot and kill him and then say it was self defense. Since you already know that crime is up in that area because the cops told you that, that you don't storm out of your house screaming and waving your gun, and now this person who is not actually in the commission of a crime, suddenly feels threatened by you and thinks his life is in danger? So now he is dead and now your the only one that can tell the story.

I do understand that this kid was suspended from school because of drugs and may have been involved in some other trouble so his parents claim that he was a "golden" child doesn't hold a lot of water with me so he may or may not have had good intentions that night.

On the other hand, Zimmerman's past with calling 911 multiple times to report various "suspicious" people doesn't make me believe he is a role model for neighbor watch captain either. Apparently he didn't know all of the residence in that community because the kid was staying with his father at a friend's house. I have yet to figure out what exactly made him come to the conclusion that this was a "suspicious" person to begin with.

At times I am leary of individuals, but I just don't think I would personally get out and follow them to see what they are up to. If I really thought they were up to no good, I would just call the cops and let them investigate.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
87623 posts
 Online 

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

I have yet to figure out what exactly made him come to the conclusion that this was a "suspicious" person to begin with.


Because you weren't there. Neither was I.

It's impossible to judge no matter how hard some people are trying.






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ShortyRob
LSU Fan
Savannah, GA
Member since Oct 2008
25399 posts
 Online 

re: Zimmerman back in the news


quote:

I have yet to figure out what exactly made him come to the conclusion that this was a "suspicious" person to begin with. Because you weren't there. Neither was I. It's impossible to judge no matter how hard some people are trying.

And it also doesn't matter.

The evidence plainly points to Trayvon turning back to confront him. The evidence plainly points to the confrontation happening near his vehicle.

Hence, Trayvon initiated contact. That really isn't even debateable.

I'm sure Trayvon turned back in order to give Zimm congrats on his diligence in support of lower crime.

I mean really. Good fricking lord. People are doing fricking somersaults in this fricking thread.

Based no their positions when we KNOW Trayvon became aware of Zimm, the length of time after that.....the distance Trayvon was from his home.....the fact that Zimm lost sight of him...., there is literally no way for contact to have happened without Trayvon choosing to have it happen. NO frickING WAY.

Sheesh.






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