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PaddlingTiger
LSU Fan
St. Louis, MO
Member since Jun 2010
1066 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious

We have plenty of room to increase revenue. Spending is currently 15.4% of GDP, so going to Clinton gets us close to even on the budget.

Revenue as % of GDP
This post was edited on 12/4 at 11:49 am


buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

Only difference I see is one of them is driving a Camry with the pedal to the medal and the other is driving a Corvette.


until I see a real plan from the republicans, I don't agree to this difference.

It could be difference.

And don't tell me the ryan plan. the ryan plan wasn't a real plan. It was a campaign tool, and almost completely unworkable.


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CajunAngele
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
15364 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
The people in this thread blaming Bush or anyone else but Obama are the problem.

Image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-du-NMG5DgCA/T9vTgxh7hmI/AAAAAAAACTA/H3S7Uvi25os/s640/Forward.jpg


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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
17865 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

If only we could've gotten Bush a few more terms we'd have dealt with this pesky deficit by now...


Bush's average yearly deficit: $250 billion

Obama's average yearly deficit: $1.3 trillion

Bush is definitely the lesser of two evils in this scenario.
This post was edited on 12/4 at 11:57 am


ChemE in the OP
LSU Fan
The Flats
Member since Apr 2011
3974 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
What was the percentage and nominal increase in annual deficit from Bush's first year to the last year he was in office?


Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
17865 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

What was the percentage and nominal increase in annual deficit from Bush's first year to the last year he was in office?


Are you fricking kidding me??

Bush ran up 4 Trillion in 8 years, Obama runs up 5 Trillion in 4 years and you want to hang your hat on who had the most percentage increase during their term? Not even my old Stretch Armstrong could reach that far.

If you weren't being such a blatant hack you would have at least asked what was the difference between Bush's last and Obama's first since they were only a year apart (hint: it wasn't much different than the average).


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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
16715 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

No, I know what it means. If conservatives were serious about keeping spending under control, they could have pressured bush to be a smaller spender. But they didn't. They didn't offer a primary challenger. They didn't scream about his spending, in fact, they defended it. Repeatedly.
Okay, all of that is true, so Republicans are bad. But what does it say about Democrats who criticized Bush for not spending enough on Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind and other areas where Bush increased spending? They can't claim that they wanted to spend less on war because they had the opportunities to vote that way and they declined. So, as bad as Republicans were for supporting Bush, Democrats were even less serious about the deficit since they supported candidates who proposed even greater spending.


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wickowick
LSU Fan
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
26543 posts
Online

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

What was the percentage and nominal increase in annual deficit from Bush's first year to the last year he was in office?


Image: http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/united-states-debt-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-19402012_50290c7b3f0c4_w1214.jpg width=700


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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
29597 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

Spending is currently 15.4% of GDP


No, it's not.

2011 GDP was $15.09 Trillion
2011 Federal expenditures totaled $3.83 Trillion

3.83/15.09 = 25.3%

15.3% is our receipts in 2011. That means money we took in, i.e. revenue
This post was edited on 12/4 at 12:55 pm


Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
24209 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

"Deficits don't matter"- Dick Cheney
Out of context. The $200B deficits Cheney was talking about largely didn't matter. Current deficits are six times that.

To act as if they are comparable is silliness.


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
24209 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

false premise...Obama has already gotten serious about cutting spending..


How many times has that been debunked on here?

quote:

What we have is a revenue problem that can be easily fixed by going back to the rates we had under Clinton.
False. But if we went back to 2000 spending levels we'd have a tidy surplus even at today's revenues that have been ravenged by the recession and tax cuts for the middle class.
This post was edited on 12/4 at 1:41 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
24209 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

dragging the US into 2 wars without the ability to pay.
So you believe we didn't have the ability to pay for the GWOT? Interesting... what is your position on the 2009 Stimulus? Because... the GWOT over 10 years cost LESS than the 2009-2010 stimulus and auto bailouts.


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
24209 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:


What was the percentage and nominal increase in annual deficit from Bush's first year to the last year he was in office?
Not really a fair comparison. Let's got first year in office to 2006. Hell, if you projected that trend out, we'd have held a balanced budget by 2008.

Bush's largest deficts came 2007/2008. You might recall what happened in late 2006. And don't forget the financial crisis spending that started in 2008. I'm not one for using that excuse, but Hell, Obama uses the financial crisis as an excuse for his deficits... should apply to Bush's last year as well...


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gatorsimz
Florida Fan
cafe risque
Member since Feb 2009
5502 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

We have plenty of room to increase revenue


Sure, increase revenues by growing GDP. 3 and a half years removed from the recession and were growing at 2% and trending down. However, sustained economic growth isn't a real possibility under this administration. Neither are spending cuts or entitlement reform so let's just go over the cliff and see what happens.
This post was edited on 12/4 at 2:14 pm


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PaddlingTiger
LSU Fan
St. Louis, MO
Member since Jun 2010
1066 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
My bad, I typed to fast. I meant revenue. The chart I posted was revenue. My point was that there is a lot of revenue to be generated going from 15.4% to 20% for revenue to GDP.


mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
OP

Do you know that every dollar we put in circulation has interest/debt attached to it?

You guys can play the blame game all you want, but it won't fix things.

Sure Dems waste a ton of money. Republicans do too, just not as much.

People that are serious about understanding our debt need to do some investigating of their own.

This post was edited on 12/4 at 5:18 pm


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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
56677 posts
Online

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

Obama slowed spending more than any of his predecessors.
O.M.G. !


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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
56677 posts
Online

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

My point was that there is a lot of revenue to be generated going from 15.4% to 20% for revenue to GDP.
Over the past half century, federal government revenue has averaged around 18% of GDP.
That's about what it ran under GWBush.
Under Obama revenue is down significantly to around 15.5% despite preservation of Bush Tax policy.

Why?

Continuous threats of tax hikes, increased regulation, class warfare rhetoric and hate for business has a chilling effect on the velocity of money, and that kills revenue. Hence its 17% decline under Obama. Performance post-2010 is illustrative. Continued damage to revenue basis at this point is on this Administration. It's Obama's doing.

Now he's adding the 3.8% NIIT on investment income.
The NIIT leaves investments to be taxed at 110% income tax rates in various instances.
Translation: Stock investments (STCGs) will now be the highest taxed items in the tax code.

Think that will have a positive effect on the graph below?

Image: http://goldsilverworlds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Velocity_of_Money_2012.gif


Obama built that. He owns it.


This post was edited on 12/4 at 8:24 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
24209 posts

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

My point was that there is a lot of revenue to be generated going from 15.4% to 20% for revenue to GDP.
So you think taking another 4.6% out of a GDP that's barely growing is "a lot of room"?


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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lap of Luxury
Member since Apr 2009
44038 posts
Online

re: When will the democrats get serious
quote:

When will the democrats get serious
...about reducing the deficit?


Back at ya', hotshot. When will the Republicans quit acting like petulant children?


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