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lsu_tiger_az 
LSU Fan
Arizona
Member since Mar 2004
28618 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 6:14 pm to LuckySo-n-So)
quote:
And state workers, state paid contractors, etc. do not pay taxes for these things as well?
They/we all pay, one way, or the other.... 
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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
4702 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 6:17 pm to 50Mullets)
there are also a ton of government jobs that you can't ship off to the private sector.
Education
Police
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Stonewall Tiger
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2011
1956 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 6:27 pm to ashy larry)
quote:
they cost taxpayers almost twice what their private sector counterpart makes.
link?
Cost of Government
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12691 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 7:00 pm to LuckySo-n-So)
quote:
Since when do city/parish/state workers NOT have to pay taxes on their income?
Do they pay more in taxes than they receive? No, so they are net takers from a purely monetary perspective. Not all takers are equal. Police and fire fighters are takers from a monetary sense, but most people will gladly make that tradeoff for the services they provide. Other takers who perform no services do not get, nor deserve, so much public sympathy. Fox should have elaborated the distinction between types of takers.
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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3276 posts
 Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 7:41 pm to Stonewall Tiger)
quote:
Cost of Government
first of all, that link compares all federal employees to all private sector workers. Unless I am missing something, it is not "their private sector counterpart" as your original post claims. Federal jobs tend to be more white collar jobs. More accountants & IT staff than brick layers & painters. Secondly, their numbers are off. They are including the costs of civil service employees retirement which hasn't been an option since the 80's. There are very few CSRS employees left. Yes, their retirement is too high which is why Reagan fixed that. However, current federal employees do not have the great retirement system most people believe they have.
fact check
If you want to argue that secretaries and other low end positions make too much, you won't find me disagreeing with you. However, to make a broad statement like "private sector counterpart" cost twice as much is incorrect. There are many professions that the government pays below the market value. And many people take these jobs (and state jobs) solely for the benefits. I have an uncle that took a significant pay cut b/c he needed the medical insurance and no one else would cover him.
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BigJim
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
1415 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 7:52 pm to ashy larry)
I think it depends on how you want to use this data. If you look at it as "leeches vs producers" then I am not sure government workers should be in there.
However, in terms of a "death spiral" I could see it.
Crisis hits: raise taxes or cut spending? Well if the group getting money from government spending outnumbers the private sector, there is a greater propensity to raise taxes. Which drains the private sector more. Which moves the proportion more. Which leads to more support for taxes, etc.
In the sense that government workers are much more likely to support dealing with fiscal problems by raising taxes, then this "study" puts them in the correct category.
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LSUIEGRAD13
Member since Jan 2011
3939 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 8:02 pm to SammyTiger)
quote:
Education
Police
Education, to an extent, could work in a Private sector.
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ChEgrad
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
11 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 10:56 pm to LuckySo-n-So)
Since the money government workers use to pay taxes comes from the private sector workers' taxes, they do not, in effect, pay taxes. The private sector workers pays the tax for them. Some government workers are clearly necessary. Many are not and perform no useful function, or at least do not contribute commensurate with their salary/cost.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 11:13 pm to ashy larry)
quote:
It doesn't make sense. A government worker is not the same as someone on welfare.
Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.
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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
115678 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 11:21 pm to ashy larry)
Seems like a lot of people would be counted as both takers and makers
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ZereauxSum
LSU Fan
Atlanta, GA
Member since Nov 2008
5768 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 11:27 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.
I don't understand this. Just because they're compensation is involuntarily taken from others doesn't mean that the labor public sector workers produce is worthless.
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davesdawgs 
Georgia Fan
Georgia
Member since Oct 2008
10998 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/29/12 at 11:55 pm to LSUIEGRAD13)
Isn't it amazing that the 4 states that delivered most of the electoral votes for Obama are part of the death spiral. But then the news media all told us that everything was all rosey in Ohio..... apparently not. 
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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3276 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 8:42 am to SoulGlo)
quote:
Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.
Let me see if I have this correct...
engineer working DOTD is a taker.
engineer working for defense contractor is a maker.
Despite the fact that both jobs are funded by the government, the employee of private defense firm is somehow better for us b/c his w-2 comes from the private sector.
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doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
2940 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 9:05 am to ashy larry)
People that work for the govt. are not takers, they too pay taxes.
But it brings up an interesting question.
If everyone worked for the government what would happen?
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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10684 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 9:16 am to LSUIEGRAD13)
So "takers" may also include all retirees, even though they have retired from the private sector, have plenty saved in 401s, etc, yet draw social security; as well as someone living in public housing who may in fact be working?
Basically, if you draw ANY government money, you are a "taker" even if you earn more in the private sector than youtake from the government.
Interesting, seems like there may be some bias here, like the author is trying to lead us to an invalid conclusion...
"FOX News: A writer at Forbes Magazine has identified..."
Oh, I see.
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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3276 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:25 am to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
Basically, if you draw ANY government money, you are a "taker" even if you earn more in the private sector than youtake from the government.
This is where the numbers are really misleading. I know a doctor in his late 60's drawing social security. He still works full time and makes very good money (specialist). He told me he is taking it b/c he paid for it, and he has a right to do it. I can't fault him. I'd feel the same way. However, people will refer to him as a 'taker' despite that he is putting MUCH more back into the system than he is taking.
I am not sure how it works, but I think that you can get 100% of your benefits regardless of income once you hit full retirement age.
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Diamondawg 
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8268 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 11:48 am to ashy larry)
quote:
This is where the numbers are really misleading. I know a doctor in his late 60's drawing social security. He still works full time and makes very good money (specialist). He told me he is taking it b/c he paid for it, and he has a right to do it. I can't fault him. I'd feel the same way. However, people will refer to him as a 'taker' despite that he is putting MUCH more back into the system than he is taking.
I am not sure how it works, but I think that you can get 100% of your benefits regardless of income once you hit full retirement age.
You can make up to something like $14,500 per year. Above that, they deduct $1 for every $2 you make over that amount. So it's not 100%
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real
LSU Fan
Dixieland
Member since Oct 2007
11495 posts
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 12:03 pm to Diamondawg)
What i take from this story is that people who <(wheter working for or leaching off of the governments tit0will always vote for those who promise them more tit. And when that becomes the Majority, you infact have a death Spiral.
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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3276 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 12:12 pm to Diamondawg)
below info is from...
LINK
quote:
While you are working, your earnings will reduce your benefit amount only until you reach your full retirement age.
quote:
Starting with the month you reach full retirement age, you can get your benefits with no limit on your earnings.
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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8268 posts
Online
| re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working (Posted on 11/30/12 at 12:14 pm to ashy larry)
Did not know that
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