11 states with more on government assistance than working | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
17354 posts
Online

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working

quote:

Since when do city/parish/state workers NOT have to pay taxes on their income?
Do they pay more in taxes than they receive? No, so they are net takers from a purely monetary perspective. Not all takers are equal. Police and fire fighters are takers from a monetary sense, but most people will gladly make that tradeoff for the services they provide. Other takers who perform no services do not get, nor deserve, so much public sympathy. Fox should have elaborated the distinction between types of takers.


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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3904 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

Cost of Government


first of all, that link compares all federal employees to all private sector workers. Unless I am missing something, it is not "their private sector counterpart" as your original post claims. Federal jobs tend to be more white collar jobs. More accountants & IT staff than brick layers & painters. Secondly, their numbers are off. They are including the costs of civil service employees retirement which hasn't been an option since the 80's. There are very few CSRS employees left. Yes, their retirement is too high which is why Reagan fixed that. However, current federal employees do not have the great retirement system most people believe they have.

fact check

If you want to argue that secretaries and other low end positions make too much, you won't find me disagreeing with you. However, to make a broad statement like "private sector counterpart" cost twice as much is incorrect. There are many professions that the government pays below the market value. And many people take these jobs (and state jobs) solely for the benefits. I have an uncle that took a significant pay cut b/c he needed the medical insurance and no one else would cover him.


BigJim
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
4069 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
I think it depends on how you want to use this data. If you look at it as "leeches vs producers" then I am not sure government workers should be in there.

However, in terms of a "death spiral" I could see it.

Crisis hits: raise taxes or cut spending? Well if the group getting money from government spending outnumbers the private sector, there is a greater propensity to raise taxes. Which drains the private sector more. Which moves the proportion more. Which leads to more support for taxes, etc.

In the sense that government workers are much more likely to support dealing with fiscal problems by raising taxes, then this "study" puts them in the correct category.


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LSUIEGRAD13
Member since Jan 2011
3939 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

Education
Police



Education, to an extent, could work in a Private sector.


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ChEgrad
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
367 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
Since the money government workers use to pay taxes comes from the private sector workers' taxes, they do not, in effect, pay taxes. The private sector workers pays the tax for them. Some government workers are clearly necessary. Many are not and perform no useful function, or at least do not contribute commensurate with their salary/cost.


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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
4011 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

It doesn't make sense. A government worker is not the same as someone on welfare.


Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.


Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
121301 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
Seems like a lot of people would be counted as both takers and makers


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ZereauxSum
LSU Fan
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.


I don't understand this. Just because they're compensation is involuntarily taken from others doesn't mean that the labor public sector workers produce is worthless.


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davesdawgs
Georgia Fan
Georgia - Class of '75
Member since Oct 2008
20307 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
Isn't it amazing that the 4 states that delivered most of the electoral votes for Obama are part of the death spiral. But then the news media all told us that everything was all rosey in Ohio..... apparently not.


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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3904 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

Yes it does. Neither PRODUCE anything. Their sustenance must be confiscated from someone before they "earn" it.



Let me see if I have this correct...

engineer working DOTD is a taker.
engineer working for defense contractor is a maker.

Despite the fact that both jobs are funded by the government, the employee of private defense firm is somehow better for us b/c his w-2 comes from the private sector.



doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
8224 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
People that work for the govt. are not takers, they too pay taxes.

But it brings up an interesting question.

If everyone worked for the government what would happen?


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WildTchoupitoulas
RA:18h 49m 59.0s, dec:-8° 33' 55.3"
Member since Jan 2010
18890 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
So "takers" may also include all retirees, even though they have retired from the private sector, have plenty saved in 401s, etc, yet draw social security; as well as someone living in public housing who may in fact be working?

Basically, if you draw ANY government money, you are a "taker" even if you earn more in the private sector than youtake from the government.

Interesting, seems like there may be some bias here, like the author is trying to lead us to an invalid conclusion...

"FOX News: A writer at Forbes Magazine has identified..."

Oh, I see.



ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3904 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

Basically, if you draw ANY government money, you are a "taker" even if you earn more in the private sector than youtake from the government.


This is where the numbers are really misleading. I know a doctor in his late 60's drawing social security. He still works full time and makes very good money (specialist). He told me he is taking it b/c he paid for it, and he has a right to do it. I can't fault him. I'd feel the same way. However, people will refer to him as a 'taker' despite that he is putting MUCH more back into the system than he is taking.

I am not sure how it works, but I think that you can get 100% of your benefits regardless of income once you hit full retirement age.


Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
12315 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

This is where the numbers are really misleading. I know a doctor in his late 60's drawing social security. He still works full time and makes very good money (specialist). He told me he is taking it b/c he paid for it, and he has a right to do it. I can't fault him. I'd feel the same way. However, people will refer to him as a 'taker' despite that he is putting MUCH more back into the system than he is taking.

I am not sure how it works, but I think that you can get 100% of your benefits regardless of income once you hit full retirement age.

You can make up to something like $14,500 per year. Above that, they deduct $1 for every $2 you make over that amount. So it's not 100%


real
LSU Fan
Dixieland
Member since Oct 2007
13272 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
What i take from this story is that people who <(wheter working for or leaching off of the governments tit0will always vote for those who promise them more tit. And when that becomes the Majority, you infact have a death Spiral.


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ashy larry
LSU Fan
Marcy Projects
Member since Mar 2010
3904 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
below info is from...
LINK

quote:

While you are working, your earnings will reduce your benefit amount only until you reach your full retirement age.

quote:

Starting with the month you reach full retirement age, you can get your benefits with no limit on your earnings.


Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
12315 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
Did not know that


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Ghostfacedistiller
USA Fan
BR
Member since Jun 2008
17478 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

That figure also includes government employees.


True. I don't consider state workers to be "on the take" but it is interesting if over over 50% is dependent (working or not working) on the government.


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Catman88
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2004
41371 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
quote:

A writer at Forbes Magazine


quote:

By fox's rationale they should be 'takers' too?


yea this is all Fox News! BOOO


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manwich
UCF Fan
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
52480 posts

re: 11 states with more on government assistance than working
11 plus Washington, D.C.


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