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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
13845 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

how do you keep someone comfortable who is dying and under hospice care

Increasing doses of morphine.


RIP, Dad.






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McChowder
LSU Fan
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
2771 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

Do you know how much money we spend to keep premature crack babies alive until they eventually succumb?

Do you know how many survive because of aggressive treatment?

So if you walk into a hospital and are diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer, should we just let you die because the national mortality rate says you only have a %40 chance of survival? Geeeez






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

No surprise, it's a government run system. In its view these are not humans, they are budget items.


How do you think an insurance company views you?

Not for ACA, detest it, but "death panels" already exist in the pvt sector.






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MSMHater
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2008
11690 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

So if you walk into a hospital and are diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer, should we just let you die because the national mortality rate says you only have a %40 chance of survival?


No. But after your 2nd surgery, and 3rd round of chemoradiation, with minimal systemic response, can we let you die then?

Or should we listen to your family who is demanding we keep pumping you full of chemo in the hopes of the 4th round generating the response we didn't get the first 3 times?

All on Medicare's dime?






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

I believe it is morally wrong to starve someone to death or dehydrate someone to death, even if they are very sick, it is a very inhumane way to let someone die.


I agree...it's likely they pursue this method since intervening to euthanize would land the doctor in jail.






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HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
8832 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


It is a human rights crisis, imo, when the British people are forced to use their dreadful NH system.

At least places like Germany and Sweden have private insurance, too.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

No. But after your 2nd surgery, and 3rd round of chemoradiation, with minimal systemic response, can we let you die then?

Or should we listen to your family who is demanding we keep pumping you full of chemo in the hopes of the 4th round generating the response we didn't get the first 3 times?

All on Medicare's dime?


FWIW a pvt insurance company is going to cut you off, too, at a certain point. Pvt insurance isn't an open ended contract. People were and currently are designated for death by their insurance companies when they cut off funds to pay for healthcare in hopeless situations....you can try to keep going out of pocket but very, very few can afford that.






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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
8870 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

How do you think an insurance company views you?


About the same, unfortunately. But at least I can sue them.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

But at least I can sue them.


And you cannot sue the government if it doesn't honor an obligation?






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MSMHater
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2008
11690 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

FWIW a pvt insurance company is going to cut you off, too, at a certain point. Pvt insurance isn't an open ended contract. People were and currently are designated for death by their insurance companies when they cut off funds to pay for healthcare in hopeless situations....you can try to keep going out of pocket but very, very few can afford that.


Hospitals carry alot of the blame for this b/c the allowable amounts on those final days are lucrative for them as well. What incentive do they (hospital) have to stop treating, and subsequently billing the payor?

It's a viscous cycle of overitilization. The hospital won't stop the treatment b/c they are getting paid for it each day. THe physician won't stop it for fear of a malpractice claim. And the family won't stop it (in most cases) b/c "it's my momma/daddy" or whatever.

The onus is usually on the patient, and most wait to long before considering a DNR or the like. It NEEDS to be the physicians responsibility to say "enough is enough", but our tort laws prevent that.






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RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Pensacola, Florida
Member since Nov 2009
22717 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

And you cannot sue the government if it doesn't honor an obligation?



Only if the government says you can - which is almost never.







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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


I don't think that holds true in this particular matter....I think you'd be looking at something along the due process line.





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McChowder
LSU Fan
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
2771 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

No. But after your 2nd surgery, and 3rd round of chemoradiation, with minimal systemic response, can we let you die then?

I'm uncomfortable with saying yes for obvious reasons. That logic can be applied to other conditions and you essentially end up with a system where life and death is decided by panels using averages printed on spread sheets. In this case, one which has quotas and financial incentives directly tied to a doctors ability to persuade a family to pull the plug. This includes children born with abnormalities.

You can argue that both private insurance and the government do this to some degree already with cutting off funding at some point, but universal healthcare and Obamacare will exacerbate the issue and lower the bar at which point such considerations would be made.

Not the kind of world I was hoping on growing old in.






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accnodefense
Kennesaw St. Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2104 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

Agreed.......why in the hell did so many Catholics vote for the idiot in the white house that advocates this BS? I'm Catholic and was apalled to see some of the numbers.


Pretty much every hispanic is a Catholic

White Catholic numbers probably were more tilted toward Romney






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
22826 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

That logic can be applied to other conditions and you essentially end up with a system where life and death is decided by panels using averages printed on spread sheets.


Already is.

quote:

In this case, one which has quotas and financial incentives directly tied to a doctors ability to persuade a family to pull the plug. This includes children born with abnormalities.


This is being investigated in GB and the reason it is being investigated is because it is likely illegal.







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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
61044 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


This is shocking.
LINK






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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
8870 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

And you cannot sue the government if it doesn't honor an obligation?


Only if the government says you can - which is almost never.



Correct. Governmental immunity. So in the future when the government healthcare system screws up, or its doctor amputates the wrong leg, its answer will be, "oh well sucks to be you."

See example below:

Click here






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McChowder
LSU Fan
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
2771 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

Already is.

No where near the degree of GB.
quote:

This is being investigated in GB and the reason it is being investigated is because it is likely illegal.

It's not illegal in GB. The investigation isn't a criminal one, it's a fact finding mission.........or more accurately, a government CYA to appease the masses who rarely ever conceive a laws possible scope. I'm sure in the end they will allow it to continue but without direct incentive payments.






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RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Pensacola, Florida
Member since Nov 2009
22717 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


quote:

I don't think that holds true in this particular matter....I think you'd be looking at something along the due process line.



It always holds true. You cannot sue the government under any circumstances unless the government says you can sue them.







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PRK
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8809 posts

re: Daily Mail: British NHS puts sick babies on "death pathway"


Wait, are we taking the Daily Mail seriously?




Are we all aware it's a tabloid?






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