History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA - Page 7 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

There are more than 3,300 deaths due to asthma each year.
In a nation of 311 million... that's 0.001% or 1/100,000th of the population. In no way does that justify the ACA. Certainly not in economic terms. Consider automotive deaths are 30-50,000 per year.

quote:

That's more Americans than are killed annually by terrorist acts, yet look how much we ALL pay to protect ourselves from that bogeyman.
Irrational spending does not justify more irrational spending.






Back to top
EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3108 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Do you not see this as a circular argument? What if not having insurance is better for "their own bottom dollar?"


Well isn't that where the penalty comes into play? It's a start, albeit flawed, I keep saying its flawed.

You have to remember too, those that refuse can't be picky when they get care. It's not like Doctors will be ordering expensive MRI's on them as opposed to someone with insurance






Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5297 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

There are more than 3,300 deaths due to asthma each year.


Your point is?

Funny your link didn't point to the number of people who had access to inhalers but didn't use them.

3,300 out of 330 million people?

I hate to break it to you but how many people were saved each year and are treated with inhalers?

It is not the job of the Gov to keep you well or treat your illness. Sorry it is not a right!!!


Back to you not answering the questions of what kind of care is a right?






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Well isn't that where the penalty comes into play?
No. Not at all. If I forego insurance, and I don't get sick... what should I be *penalized* for?

If I forego insurance and I do get sick... but I don't seek care... what should I be *penalized* for?

You should be penalized if you make a poor choices. But we have a tidy mechanism for inflicting that penalty --PAY THE BILL or do without.

quote:

It's not like Doctors will be ordering expensive MRI's on them as opposed to someone with insurance
Bull shite they won't. They have to protect themselves for lawsuits. Ask any ER doc who is more likely to sue them. Medicaid patient or patient with insurance?



This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:52 pm


Back to top
WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14821 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

I hate to break it to you but how many people were saved each year and are treated with inhalers?

You implied that he wouldn't die from asthma. I was showing that he may.

quote:

Back to you not answering the questions of what kind of care is a right?




Let me know when it runs out of sand...






Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5297 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

It's not like Doctors will be ordering expensive MRI's on them as opposed to someone with insurance


BS, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Drs have to order the MRIs for these people if not they will be sued.

Drs don't have a choice, if one is required it has to be ordered and here is the catch. If a patient comes into a private hospital and needs care and then has to be seen by the Dr later at his private practice, the Dr has to pay for the MRI!

Go ask some trauma surgeons at a private hospital how that works. You would be shocked.






Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5297 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

You implied that he wouldn't die from asthma. I was showing that he may.
\


That would be his choice. Sorry still not a right.

Still can't answer..what a hack






Back to top
  Replies (0)
BaddestAndvari
New Orleans Saints Fan
That Overweight Racist State
Member since Mar 2011
11188 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Ask any ER doc who is more likely to sue them. Medicaid patient or patient with insurance?


This is why I absolutely hope that sometime down the line (which shouldn't be that far from now) there is a rule that comes out, that if you have any form of government healthcare, you can NOT sue anyone that gives you medical treatment.. ever, if the money was paid for by the guberment.






Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5297 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

This is why I absolutely hope that sometime down the line (which shouldn't be that far from now) there is a rule that comes out, that if you have any form of government healthcare, you can NOT sue anyone that gives you medical treatment.. ever, if the money was paid for by the guberment.


I agree, but it will never happen.

The same people who are on here screaming healthcare is a "Right" have to take into account other "Rights". Can't have it both ways.

I agree they shouldn't be able to sue, but if you think lawyers are going to give up those "rights" you are crazy.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

This is why I absolutely hope that sometime down the line (which shouldn't be that far from now) there is a rule that comes out, that if you have any form of government healthcare, you can NOT sue anyone that gives you medical treatment.. ever, if the money was paid for by the guberment.
Guess what that will do for the quality of guberment-provided doctors?






Back to top
WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14821 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Irrational spending does not justify more irrational spending.



But I think the problem here is conceptualization.

No one in the thread seems to want to conceptualize how we may consider health care a right without conceptualizing the multiple, inefficient, massive government bureaucracies we already have in place.

EVERYONE seems to be assuming that since I am arguing that health care is a right, I support the ACA. I do NOT support the ACA, I think it is first, another massive, inefficient bureaucracy, and second, a surreptitious end run at a single-payer universal health care system.

that said, I am not against a single payer system necessarily, I just don't like the way we are going about restructuring our health care system.

It should start out with a blank slate and the question, "Is health care a right?" and go from there.






Back to top
BaddestAndvari
New Orleans Saints Fan
That Overweight Racist State
Member since Mar 2011
11188 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Guess what that will do for the quality of guberment-provided doctors?


Good, I have 0 feelings otherwise for this, let them treat the patient with no $$$ at a lower cost to themselves, in order to recoop the money they are going to spend. I'm 100% ok with this situation, it is also the ultimate outcome of the system that has been put in place.






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

It should start out with a blank slate and the question, "Is health care a right?" and go from there.
We agree on this! That's why we need to have the debate, and have it pass the hurdle of placing it into the Constitution.

But understand there is large difference here. Arguing we have a right to health care != we have a right to free healthcare.

The First Amendment ensure a right to free speech and press. It doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide you a printing press. Nor does the 2nd Amendment require the government provide you arms.






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Good, I have 0 feelings otherwise for this, let them treat the patient with no $$$ at a lower cost to themselves, in order to recoop the money they are going to spend.
Well... if you patients have no recourse... it will self-select the worst doctors who can operate and treat without fear of their own incompetence. I'm not sure that's a lot better than no doctor to be quite honest.






Back to top
Womski
Army Fan
Squire Creek
Member since Aug 2011
1435 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


Here's what I don't understand. How is it congress, the president, and the Supreme Court are not as smart as those of you saying it isn't a right? Even if you believe the tax theory, the genesis of the idea is to continue our progressive nature and provide a means of healthcare to all Americans.

Who says it isn't a right? A right is whatever we say it is. This is America. We make the rules.






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22453 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

How is it congress, the president, and the Supreme Court are not as smart as those of you saying it isn't a right?
Please provide a link to the SCOTUS declaring health care is a right. Please point to the legislation declaring health care is a right.

quote:

Who says it isn't a right? A right is whatever we say it is. This is America. We make the rules.
Ralph Wiggum alter?



This post was edited on 11/29 at 3:08 pm


Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5297 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Ralph Wiggum alter?


RalphDATTOWIGGUM






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Puck82
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
11731 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


When did "right to" become equal to "guaranteed to be provided by government?" We have the right to arms. Why isn't the government providing weapons to the general public. Just because you have the right to something does not mean it is provided and paid for by someone else.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14821 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

But understand there is large difference here. Arguing we have a right to health care != we have a right to free healthcare. The First Amendment ensure a right to free speech and press. It doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide you a printing press. Nor does the 2nd Amendment require the government provide you arms.

Oh, this is good stuff, right here.

We agree that nothing is free. So if you have a right to health care, and you have no money, do you still have that right?

Let's go to the courts ca 1975, Buckley v. Valeo...

This is commonly called the "Mony=speech" decision. Let's say money=speech, if that's the case, than more money = more speech and less money = less speech to the point where no money = no speech. Does everyone maintain their right to free speech in this case? If you have a right to something, but it costs more money than you have, is it still considered a right? You say yes, because as long as you can pay for it, you may speak freely.

[csb]I was reading an article recently that discussed a bill that was introduced in the New Hampshire that would tax NON-GUN OWNERS! The theory being that these people's security was enhanced by those gun owners around them. [/csb]

No, the 2nd Amendment doesn't require the government provide arms, BUT if you go back and read through the Constitutional Convention notes, you will find out what "Well Regulated" meant at the time as it pertained to a militia. It meant that arms would be standardized. You couldn't show up at muster with some odd-ball caliber rifle (pardon the pun). When the militia was called, you were to show up with a standard weapon, and retained the right to acquire such a weapon. I've always just assumed that if you showed up with no gun, one would be provided to you.

That said, when Uncle Sam drafts you ass, you ARE issued a GI weapon - and it WILL be "well regulated".

But I definitely see your point regarding a prohibition from being turned away from health care if you can afford it. That protects your right to health care to a great extent.



This post was edited on 11/29 at 3:24 pm


Back to top
WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14821 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

This is America. We make the rules.


I like the cut of your jib.






Back to top
  Replies (0)


Back to top