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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10631 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:09 pm to BugAC)
quote:
Try having the federal government try to manage healthcare for all? How, in the blue frick, will that be cheaper?
You people and your straw men.
Look back through the thread and link to where I said government had to manage health care for all?
Are all drivers in Louisiana required to have liability insurance? How does the government "manage" that?
And before you start crying that driving isn't a right, that's besides the point. It's a government mandate that's privately managed - with oversight by the government.
And I don't know about yours, but my insurance agent of 22 years is doing QUITE well these days.
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Taxing Authority 
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16707 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:11 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
Humane.
Civilized.
Society.
What's humane about forcing others to work for free?
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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10631 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:12 pm to Elcid96)
quote:
You couldn't afford it, sorry.
Right, the filthy asthmatic should just fricking die in the street like a dog.
Serve him right, damn leech.
This is AMERICA! Only the strong should survive! To hell with the rest!
Awesome.
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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
4385 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:13 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
Are all drivers in Louisiana required to have liability insurance? How does the government "manage" that?
Nice try.
How many State Level Car Insurance Exchanges do they have now?
Please show me on my tax return where it says I have to check the box to prove I have car insurance?
quote:
And before you start crying that driving isn't a right, that's besides the point
Of course it is in your argument, because it blows your straw man argument up!!!
Thanks for playing?
Still no anwer on my questions...tic toc.
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EthanL
LSU Fan
Harvey LA
Member since Oct 2011
2191 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:14 pm to McChowder)
I'm going to side on healthcare being a right you are entitled to and here is why:
Lets consider a very basic example of this. I work at a hospital, where the powers-that-be strongly recommend that you take the flu shot. If you don't, you have to sign a waiver (not sure what it says), and I guess take your chances.
Proponents argument for the flu shot is obvious. Those against it, site things like 'I've worked here 25+ years and never had the flu'. In fact several polls show 65-75% of doctors don't take the flu shot.
So in effect, whether you take it or not, you are electing to, and with a refusal, administer some form of healthcare.
We do this everyday. Nobody can stop us from putting on a band-aid, rubbing our elbow, or 'sleeping off' a headache. We have a right to healthcare, the question is, do we still have a right to it, if it infringes on other people's rights? That answer appears to be yes also. Here is the other example:
We have a new employee here, who, at her previous job, they were told it was mandatory to take the flu shot, or she couldn't work there (UAB in Birmingham, AL).
They have decided, as a healthcare worker, she poses to great a risk to patients, if she were to contract flu, so whatever precautions she needs to take she must take, or suffer the penalty (unemployment).
Herein lies the individual mandate. If you don't acquire, or are not provided by employer some type of insurance, then your actually existence infringes on the rights of other people (you could become catastrophically ill and we pay for it), so a fine, penalty, whatever is served.
So it's a right. And the reasoning (the law) is a good effort (although very flawed) at enumerating and protecting that right, so that people can't cherry-pick when that right is exercised based on their own bottom dollar
This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:18 pm
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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
13805 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:15 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
Look back through the thread and link to where I said government had to manage health care for all?
What in the frick do you think Obamacare does?
quote:
Are all drivers in Louisiana required to have liability insurance? How does the government "manage" that?
If you drive you are required to have insurance. Government doesn't mandate you to drive, therefore auto insurance is optional.
Government doesn't manage auto insurance, private auto insurance companies do.
quote:
that's besides the point
hahaha so you found holes in your own argument 
quote:
And I don't know about yours, but my insurance agent of 22 years is doing QUITE well these days.
Why do you know what your insurance agent makes? I don't because i am not concerned what other private individuals do with their money. Your problem is you are letting jealousy control the rational part of your brain, and those 2 cannot exist.
This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:19 pm
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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
13805 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:19 pm to EthanL)
quote:
I'm going to side on healthcare being a right
Who is denied access to healthcare in this country?
This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:20 pm
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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
4385 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:20 pm to EthanL)
quote:
so that people can't cherry-pick when that right is exercised based on their own bottom dollar
Sure they can.
They just won't buy any and will still not be refused.
The people who have cherry picked will always cherry pick, the only difference is now we all get screwed.
You can't enforce a tax on those that don't pay taxes any way.
It is not a right!!!
In your example, you had a choice on whether to work there.
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VerlanderBEAST 
Michigan Fan
Member since Dec 2011
8235 posts
 Online
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:21 pm to Elcid96)
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263308 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:23 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
first you have to establish that it is indeed a right,
i think the burden is on those trying to proclaim that it's a right. buying health insurance is an economic choice and nothing more. how can you say it's a right of any kind?
secondly, even if it is a right, that just means the government can't infringe upon that right
nobody is rolling the military into small towns to establish the press
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16707 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:24 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
Right, the filthy asthmatic should just fricking die in the street like a dog.
Stop trying to play the boogyman argument. You're better than that. What the asthmatic should do is find another way to pay for it. Whether by soliciting charity or _______. It's up to him/her.
The idea that the only possible way of paying for it is from confiscating wealth is pure fanatasy. And uncreative.
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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10631 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:28 pm to BugAC)
quote:
you found holes in your own argument
No, you're too ignoarnt to get the point.
Government has a legal MANDATE which is provided for in the private sector with government oversight over costs (isurance commission).
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Why do you know what your insurance agent makes?
Not exactly, but I know him, and he's pretty well off.
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I don't because i am not concerned what other private individuals do with their money.
Did I say I cared what he did with his money? No, because I don't. I just know he's doing well.
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Your problem is you are letting jealousy control the rational part of your brain
I SERIOUSLY doubt my insurance agent is jealous that I'm better off than he.
My point is that he's able to provide a government madated service, with oversight by the government, and still make a tidy profit.
Why do you think that's wrong?
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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
4385 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:28 pm to WildTchoupitoulas)
quote:
the filthy asthmatic should just fricking die in the street like a dog
Drama....YAWN!!
I love the progressive rational argument.
If the GOV doesn't help you...you will DIE!!!!
There is no way he could find any other solution!!!
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Serve him right, damn leech
Your words not mine.
Funny how if I don't want to pay for somebody elses problem, I then must want them to die!! Please explain how your fricking brain comes to that conclusion?
I find it hard to believe that an inhaler is going to make or break the lifestyle of this poor poor soul.
Seriouse question, did you major or minor in Drama?
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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
14866 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:30 pm to BaddestAndvari)
quote:
unless I had a pre-existing condition, then I had to pay out my arse to get the inhaler because insurance wasn't about to pay for an inhaler, for the asthma I was born with.
Should have gone to the E/R or Charity - they would have billed you and might have come back on your tax returns, but you would not have been denied care with no out of pocket expenses at the time. I'm sorry if that's true and I'm sorry if pre-existing conditions got some people, but everything I just said is true.
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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10631 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:30 pm to Elcid96)
quote:
I have a right to a job.
You would if you lived in Lousiana...
...it's a "Right to Work" state, thanks to the conservatives.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16707 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:31 pm to EthanL)
quote:
We do this everyday. Nobody can stop us from putting on a band-aid, rubbing our elbow, or 'sleeping off' a headache. We have a right to healthcare, the question is, do we still have a right to it, if it infringes on other people's rights?
So MY right to loud music is OK if it infringes upon you right to peace?
quote:
Herein lies the individual mandate. If you don't acquire, or are not provided by employer some type of insurance, then your actually existence infringes on the rights of other people (you could become catastrophically ill and we pay for it), so a fine, penalty, whatever is served.
NO! The infringement only happens because others are FORCED to cover others. This is in effect the government creating a situation so that it then has the power to regulate consequent action.
Removing the requirement to provide free care would be 100% effective in removing the consequent infringement. your claiming. Far moreso than the piddly penalty *cough* tax in the ACA.
quote:
So it's a right. And the reasoning (the law) is a good effort (although very flawed) at enumerating and protecting that right, so that people can't cherry-pick when that right is exercised based on their own bottom dollar
Do you not see this as a circular argument? What if not having insurance is better for "their own bottom dollar?"
This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:34 pm
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BaddestAndvari 
New Orleans Saints Fan
That Overweight Racist State
Member since Mar 2011
9289 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:33 pm to Elcid96)
quote:
but why in the hell should I have to pay for your inhaler?
you wont, but the insurance company will NOT deny my coverage anymore for that inhaler, that same insurance company that I pay a HUGE premium to every month just to protect me, which they don't, for the thing I need the most.
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For that matter why should a insurance company?
because I pay for the insurance, monthly, and it's getting more and more expensive by the day.
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What if there were no such thing as an inhaler?
Then we would probably still be using topical remedies, and there would be much more death associated with asthma.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16707 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:35 pm to BaddestAndvari)
quote:
the insurance company will NOT deny my coverage anymore for that inhaler,
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it's getting more and more expensive by the day.
HINT: You're paying for it. You just don't know it.
This post was edited on 11/29 at 2:36 pm
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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
10631 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:35 pm to Elcid96)
quote:
If the GOV doesn't help you...you will DIE!!!!
quote:
Mortality
Each day 9 Americans die from asthma. There are more than 3,300 deaths due to asthma each year, many of which are avoidable with proper treatment and care. In addition, asthma is indicated as “contributing factor” for nearly 7,000 other deaths each year. [14]
Since 1980 asthma death rates overall have increased more than 50% among all genders, age groups and ethnic groups. The death rate for children under 19 years old has increased by nearly 80% percent since 1980. [15]
More females die of asthma than males, and women account for nearly 65% of asthma deaths overall. [16]
African Americans are three times more likely to die from asthma. African American Women have the highest asthma mortality rate of all groups, more than 2.5 times higher than Caucasian women.
LINK
There are more than 3,300 deaths due to asthma each year.
That's more Americans than are killed annually by terrorist acts, yet look how much we ALL pay to protect ourselves from that bogeyman.
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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
4385 posts
| re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA (Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:38 pm to BaddestAndvari)
quote:
you wont, but the insurance company will NOT deny my coverage anymore for that inhaler, that same insurance company that I pay a HUGE premium to every month just to protect me, which they don't, for the thing I need the most.
Great, now that cost gets passed on to me. You think the insurance company is just going to suck it up?
You don't have a right to insurance...sorry!!!
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because I pay for the insurance, monthly, and it's getting more and more expensive by the day.
I thought you were denied because of your pre existing condition?
So you have insurance, but your insurance won't pay for your inhaler? Change insurance, again it is not your right to have them pay for it.
Don't pay your high premium and go buy your inhaler. There priorities sorry.
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What if there were no such thing as an inhaler?
Then we would probably still be using topical remedies, and there would be much more death associated with asthma.
Do you think money paid for this or good intentions? Money paid for the inhaler to be studied and developed. Nothing is free.
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