Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS - Page 135 - TigerDroppings.com

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jrodLSUke
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

From the very start of the series, he uses his first chapter to screw Tyrion over and help start the events of the series.

How so? I don't recall how this played out.

ETA: After football season, this thread is gonna make a comeback.



This post was edited on 11/27 at 8:42 pm


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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Littlefinger's very first appearance was him telling Ned and Catelyn that the dagger that bran's assassin was wielding used to belong to him but was won off of him when Tyrion betted for Ser Loras as Littlefinger betted for Jaime.

Which we now know is a lie because like Tyrion said he would "never bet against his family".






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Which we now know is a lie because like Tyrion said he would "never bet against his family".



Also when Tyrion finally figured it out that Joffrey was responsible for it, he thought that the knife belonged in Robert's stash of weaponry. Tyrion never owned that knife and Littlefinger framed him for it.






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

And littlefinger should be scared. Tyrion is the most powerful person in the game. ESPECIALLY NOW



Tyrion is a player, but he's a player that can mostly be predicted by the best players of the game. He always does the logical thing, which is why Littlefinger doesn't always do the logical thing to outwit the other players.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Tyrion is a player, but he's a player that can mostly be predicted by the best players of the game. He always does the logical thing, which is why Littlefinger doesn't always do the logical thing to outwit the other players.


But littlefinger is playing a game that he can not ever realistically win. He is like Arkansas was the past few years, dangerous enough to compete but never really a threat to win it all. At some point in time Littlefinger's game will crumble and he will be left with nothing to stand on.

While Tyrion plays the game but is good enough to allow himself a way out. He keeps his word which gains him allies but he does not give his word liberally. He guards his promises and minimizes his debts. Always making sure to keep friends at his back.

And Varys...... Well the readers are the only ones who know for a fact that Varys is even IN the game and that's what keeps him safe.

Littlefinger has been destined to fall from the start. He is the dictionary definition of "too smart for his own damn good".






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

But littlefinger is playing a game that he can not ever realistically win. He is like Arkansas was the past few years, dangerous enough to compete but never really a threat to win it all. At some point in time Littlefinger's game will crumble and he will be left with nothing to stand on.



That's not really Littlefinger's game though. He just merely wants to cause discord among the realm and greatly despises the upper houses. He feels its the reason he wasn't able to marry Cat. Littlefinger is not after the realm like the other players are, but he seeks to destroy it. Varys knows this and thus lets Littlefinger play his little game since it only meets Varys' own ends.

quote:

Littlefinger has been destined to fall from the start. He is the dictionary definition of "too smart for his own damn good".



Yeah, he's the only person who has come out ahead in literally every book. He's overdue for a rude awakening.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

That's not really Littlefinger's game though. He just merely wants to cause discord among the realm and greatly despises the upper houses. He feels its the reason he wasn't able to marry Cat. Littlefinger is not after the realm like the other players are, but he seeks to destroy it. Varys knows this and thus lets Littlefinger play his little game since it only meets Varys' own ends.


Littlefinger wants power so he can throw that power in the faces of the Starks, lannisters, tullys, baratheons, martells, greyjoys and arryns

He wants to rule them so they have to answer small little Petyr Baelish, lord of the smallest finger. He wants them to answer to the ways they looked at him.

He doesn't concern Varys because A) he is playing into Varys' hand and B) because Varys knows he is no true threat. Not in the bigger game.

Remember when Arya eavesdropped on Varys and illyrio's conversation in GOT? Arys said something along the lines of "and god knows what littlefinger is playing at" and then immediately after he reiterates that Ned is the one who worries him the most. Now Varys who is universally accepted as the MVP in the game of thrones isn't even worried about Petyr Baelish. Varys isn't the type to disregard a person based soley on their rank at birth either. No, if Varys truly saw littlefinger as a legitimate he would have voiced that concern to Illyrio while he was asking for more "little birds" and more coin. Yet he didn't? Why? The only logical answer is that Littlefinger is just another chess piece. He may not be a pawn but he is still being controlled by the man who is actually playing the game.



This post was edited on 11/27 at 10:46 pm


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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Remember when Arya eavesdropped on Varys and illyrio's conversation in GOT? Arys said something along the lines of "and god knows what littlefinger is playing at" and then immediately after he reiterates that Ned is the one who worries him the most. Now Varys who is universally accepted as the MVP in the game of thrones isn't even worried about Petyr Baelish. Varys isn't the type to disregard a person based soley on their rank at birth either. No, if Varys truly saw littlefinger as a legitimate he would have voiced that concern to Illyrio while he was asking for more "little birds" and more coin. Yet he didn't? Why? The only logical answer is that Littlefinger is just another chess piece. He may not be a pawn but he is still being controlled by the man who is actually playing the game.



I just think that Varys has figured out that he has no interest in the squabbles of King's Landing. And if the theories about Aegon and Varys being Blackfyres is true, then really Varys and Littlefinger are more or less on the same page on what they want to get done. Varys' plan is just much larger, grander, and more patient and underground than Littlefinger's is. Littlefinger is a player, but a player that the even bigger one has accounted for.






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Carson123987
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Great debate right here, but I have to side with OML.

Littlefinger just wants to bring down the system that denied him the love of Catelyn and made him the laughing stock that everyone thinks he is.

He is just as big a player as Tyrion and Varys imo






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I just think that Varys has figured out that he has no interest in the squabbles of King's Landing. And if the theories about Aegon and Varys being Blackfyres is true, then really Varys and Littlefinger are more or less on the same page on what they want to get done. Varys' plan is just much larger, grander, and more patient and underground than Littlefinger's is. Littlefinger is a player, but a player that the even bigger one has accounted for.


This post makes me think that we're running in circles around each other. Both trying to say the same thing but not quite getting each others point.

I do think littlefinger is a very legitimate player in the game and, using the college football analogy again, has the talent and potential to ruin someone else's season but he just doesn't have quite enough to win it all.

The true powerhouse, the true master manipulator and the true master of the board (Varys) has already accounted for any moves and trickerations that littlefinger and/or Tyrion can bring to the table.

The difference in littlefinger and Tyrion is that littlefinger's presence leads to his company hating him. Littlefinger has no friends everyone of his pawns KNOWS that they are his pawns and that doesn't win him any favors.

Now let's look at Tyrion. He puts off an air that forces people to like him. Jon Snow, for instance, hated his guts before they left winterfell. Yet before Tyrion left the wall Jon shook his hand and called him friend. Bronn met Tyrion while Tyrion was a prisoner and Bronn was his guard yet Bronn became his closest companion. He talked his way out of slavery and into the most powerful sell sword company not named The Golden Company. He wormed his way into friendship with Jon Connington to the point that Jon risked and ultimately contracted grey scale solely to save his life.

Those are the reasons that Tyrion is the most powerful man (not counting Varys/Illyrio) in the series to this point. People have no choice but to love him and that gift is why he is still alive.






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NIH
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

He is just as big a player as Tyrion and Varys imo


Littlefinger's weakness was Cat, and now Sansa. That is clear as day and even the show hinted at it prematurely when Varys visited Roz. He's played the game as someone objective who plays all the sides to get what he wants, the problem now is that fades with his boner for Sansa.






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GeauxTigers18
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Tyrion may have played himself out of the game with the kinslaying and accused kingslaying. His only route back to influence is Dany.
Varys played himself out of the game helping Tyrion.
LittleFinger is sitting in the best position at the end of DWD. He still is in good graces with throne and has skill to resolve Roberts debt. The debt issue with Bravosi bank is what is going to get the facelessmen involved in the game.



This post was edited on 11/28 at 2:14 am


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GeauxTigers18
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Varys is not in the most powerful position. He has hitched his wagon to the Blackfyre's and Aegon which currently have the most remote chance of coming into power.In fact he is rather desperate when last seen in DWD. Killing folks and such.


This post was edited on 11/28 at 2:27 am


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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Tyrion may have played himself out of the game with the kinslaying and accused kingslaying. His only route back to influence is Dany.



Which I'd say is a safe bet that it will happen. Would be awesome to see him be Hand of the Queen and then send a letter directly to Cersei declaring war and having her read it.

quote:

Varys played himself out of the game helping Tyrion.



Hardly. Sure it was a setback, but he is by no means out of the game. For the minor setback that Tyrion set him, he provided an incredibly huge jump in both Varys and Littlefinger's plans by killing off Tywin and having Cersei rule the kingdom and thus destroy it from within. Keep in mind that Varys made absolutely no attempt to stop Tyrion killing him and told him exactly where his father was. I think Varys was counting on it being a major setback until Tyrion knew where he was and what he was planning to do.

quote:

LittleFinger is sitting in the best position at the end of DWD. He still is in good graces with throne and has skill to resolve Roberts debt. The debt issue with Bravosi bank is what is going to get the facelessmen involved in the game.


Littlefinger has no intensions of going back to King's Landing and helping out with the debt of the realm. He is absolutely thrilled on how far the kingdom has sank. Sure he'll use the fact that people think he might come back to King's Landing to his advantage, but he doesn't give a frick about going back there. His plans now concern taking over The North, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and King's Landing does not concern him at the moment, especially since its on a downward spiral. He feels he can secure the 7 Kingdoms with 3 of them at his back.



This post was edited on 11/28 at 2:33 am


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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Varys is not in the most powerful position. He has hitched his wagon to the Blackfyre's and Aegon which currently have the most remote chance of coming into power.In fact he is rather desperate when last seen in DWD. Killing folks and such.



Why is that? Everyone hates the Lannisters, and the Dornishmen are likely to join Aegon. What if the Tyrells sneak Maergery out of King's Landing in effort to marry her to Aegon, and then declare their banners against the Lannisters? Sure the Dornishmen and the Tyrells hate each other, but I think they'll come against the Lannisters who have ripped both their families a new fricking a-hole within that generation. The Lannister Dynasty is about to fall, and their only hope for revival is Tyrion.






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GeauxTigers18
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Varys is literally living in the walls of Red Keep and if he shows his face he is dead. The Tyrells already own the throne. Cercei was humbled with the walk of shame and pretty much put out to pasture with regards to her power. No reason for Tyrells to want anything to change. Their best bet is ruling through Tommen.


This post was edited on 11/28 at 3:10 am


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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Tyrion is in very good graces with the person who is most likely to sit the throne next. Aegon has the strength of the golden company and most likely dorne. Those are two untouched very formidable armies vs the who are broken and void of leadership and/or the vale who littlefinger has a very precarious leadership over at best.

Looking at it at from a logical perspective (now admittedly this is GRRM's story and he will do with it what he will) Aegon should cut through his opposition like he is slicing through butter with a warm blade.

Tyrion is also in a position to make common cause with Dany who has three dragons, the strength of the unsullied and with Tyrion's help could also command the might of the second sons.

If you combine Dany's and Aegon's armies together (something that is very probable to happen at some point, if only for a short period of time) then you have a force that is absolutely unstoppable by any realistic means.

This means that Tyrion is in a situation that could land him being good friends and allies with the next king AND queen of Westeros.

He is without a doubt in the most favorable position out of any other man in Westeros aside from Varys.






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GeauxTigers18
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Something about a bird in the hand and one in the bush. Things maybe looking good for Tyrion in the future but he was last seen jousting on a dog trying not to catch sea aids. Not so great. Dont really know how Dany will feel about adding a kinslayer and kingslayer to her crew. She is a bit paranoid about being betrayed these days.





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GeauxTigers18
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Oh and winter is coming. I believe that means its a good time to have northern alliances.





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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Varys is literally living in the walls of Red Keep and if he shows his face he is dead.


You forget that Varys is an absolute master at changing his face. Only the Faceless Men can conceal themselves as effectively.

quote:

The Tyrells already own the throne. Cercei was humbled with the walk of shame and pretty much put out to pasture with regards to her power.


90% of the guards there are Lannister men. They own the throne just about as the Starks did in the first novel. Cersei will be reignited when she finds out that Pycelle and Ser Kevan are killed. She will be convinced that they and Tyrion are in league together. Cersei will rip the kingdom even more apart as Varys intends. I think the irony is that as soon as Cersei kicks House Tyrell out of King's Landing or they flee, Cersei will be getting a nice letter from Tyrion telling her of his plan to sack the Seven Kingdoms with Daenerys army and dragons.

quote:

No reason for Tyrells to want anything to change. Their best bet is ruling through Tommen.


Cersei has basically killed the pride of House Tyrell herself. They want blood for what happened to Loras Tyrell and the fact that Cersei didn't send forces to protect their own shores from the Greyjoy fleet. If they see that the person's grandson who they originally supported for the Iron Throne has returned, House Tyrell will join them if they agree to marry off Maergery. Tommen is not the best bet in ruling long term since their enemies are now regrouping and will be able to face down the Lannisters. Especially when Littlefinger has much of the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands under his control, they will abandon the Lannisters in a heartbeat.






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