OK I statred reading this thread last night. I gave up and went to sleep on page 10. I resumed reading this morning and gave up on page 21 skipping the last 7 pages to post.
Dog deer hunting is a long standing traditions in some locations. Downshift appears to be the exception and is an honorable dogger and does his best to accomadate the surrounding land owners of which he rarely interfers with. More Doggers need to follow this model. I would actually like to go on my first dog hunt with downshift if he is willing. It sounds like a blast when done correctly.
Monticello is facing more problems than dog hunting deer. He (and others in this thread)is dealing with straight up criminals if all that he has posted is true. This appears to be the norm for dog hunters sadly.
Another group of posters continues to try to take the argument tangental to the inital intent with ethical questions and comparisions to other forms of hunting.
In-fighting is bad for any given organization regardless of how fragmented the organization has become. This is true for all forms of hunting and fishing also. Complete banning of any form of fishing or hunting is certainly only another step toward larger bans and the end of our activities all together. That being said it is still important for outdoorsmen to self evaluate our practices and set guidelines that respect not only other outdoorsmen but also other non outdoorsmen. Ignoring bad internal practices in an effort to prevent showing weakness to ones enemies is simply misguided.
We used to run dogs on our lease. We still hunted in the mornings and evenings and ran dogs during the mid day hours. When I was younger I enjoyed it, but my opinion changed when my style of hunting changed. Fortunately when Arkansas implemented Antler restrictions we quit running dogs. Too many times people were killing illegal deer to end the chase.
To those that say that running dogs doesn't bother deer, I would have to disagree. If your style of hunting is looking over fields, down shooting lanes, or on pipelines you are probably right, but if you mostly bow hunt dogs will frick up a a spot quick. Most of my stands are set up near bedding areas and if you bust a 3+ year old buck out of his bedroom more than once or twice his arse is moving.
With that being said, I'm for anyone getting out and enjoying the outdoors whether that be dogging, long range rifle hunting, sitting over a bait pile, or bow hunting. Those of us that are ethical hunters and value the game that chase need to come together to weed out the outlaws. While we will never get rid of all of the scum we can make it more difficult for them.
dat yat LSU Fan Chef Pass Member since Jun 2011 1994 posts
re: It's time to ban dog deer hunting(Posted by dat yat on 11/27/12 at 2:09 pm to drakeT1217)
I can't believe people get so bent out of shape about a hunt.
Background: I bought a plot of timber in the Desoto NF and had visions of every deer coming to my place because I would have the only food plots for miles. Didn't happen (in daylight). Why? Every dog in Perry County is chasing deer all over the national forest and on my place too. There are way too many groups around to stop them, you can't fight them, can't bring myself to shoot a hound dog for doing what I wish I could do. My solution was to shoot a deer, catch the dogs and meet the other hunters. Now we kind-of made friends and they call me when they make a run near my area or if the dogs get off course to my area. I take stands on the old logging trails/escape routs and I've killed a few deer this way. It works out for everyone. I would join up and run the whole county with them if they were not "road hunters"; I just don't want to do it that way.
Deer or any game for that matter do not belong to the property owner. However, the property owner in most states is allowed to prevent predation of not only livestock but also wild game animals if he can sufficently show such predation is interferring with his rights.
Although shooting a wild animal is differnt than shooting someones pet, and shooting a pet may cause legal ramifications, it would be very difficult to prove that a dog once dead was not trying to attack the property owner and the shooting was in self defense.
The vast majority of hog hunters that use dogs here dont give two shits about the chase dogs. They only care about the catch dogs. If a dog does not hunt well or gets injured it is shot on the spot. "one lees mouth to feed and plenty where he came from". If a dog is not at the truck when they get ready to leave it is left behind.
I am not certain about LA but most states consider trespassing with a firearm a felony and it should be handled by the Sherrifs office. Property damage also falls under the Sherrifs office. The accounts of persons on your property with firearms clearly trespassing are easily dealt with assuming proper identifing photo evidence.
Although I agee with Monticello and Infidel that initiating some more restrictive guidelines can be enforced enough to make a difference, I also agree that there will always be law breakers out there. Comparing this to gun control though is foolish because the "reason" for gun control is it makes everyone safe but removing guns makes law abiding citizens victims. The reason for increased dog hunting control is to protect rights of those not participating in the sport and does not remove rights from those persons that would otherwise protect them from dog hunters choosing to ignore the law in the future.
Presumably dog drives are more effective than other froms of hunting especially in certain areas. That being the case why not stager seasons so that dog deer hunting is only allowed during an exclusive season closed to other forms of hunting preferably late in the season. Further restrict this form of hunting to contiguous lands with an aggregate area greater than X square acres which may include multiple contiguous properties agreed upon by landowners in writting prior to season. Require documentation of this designated land area to be in hand for all dog deer hunters. Put restrictions on the specific # of hunters and dogs on a dog hunt and require all dogs to be clearly marked. Mandate specific and substantial fines for dog hunters for specific infringments.
These changes should make it much easier to enforce the regulations and would reduce the number of idiots taking advantage of the exisiting loose laws and apparent looser enforcement.
When I was a kid (HS, JH) I went a lot with dogs and enjoyed it.
Several years later, some fricking dumbass lived not far from my folks' place and thought he could just run his fricking dogs throughout. Must have freaked him out when I ran into him in the swamp when he was running them the last time - him dressed in backwoods redneck hunting finery and me: barefoot, khaki shorts, camo fatigue top and AR15. The conversation was polite enough, but luckily for all, the point was made clear. Never happened again.
Present day, I don't care much for dog deer hunting myself and don't think it's as sporting. I don't think it should be banned but that people doing should be punished pretty severely for doing so irresponsibly.