Why is it ok to steal media? | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Why is it ok to steal media?


OK, so I may get a bit long winded and/or philosophical here, so bear with me.

1*) I disagree with your use of the term "steal."

2) There is a wealth of political philosophy that disagrees with the concept of intellectual property, and considers it simple economic protectionism.

3) Even if you do think that some IP protections are necessary, I would bet that you wouldn't agree with what is currently on the books (nor would most reasonable people). Nor would you like what you learn when you delve into the extreme corporate lobbying done by the entertainment industry in order to make IP protections more beneficial for themselves.

4) Markets operate irrespective of law and morality. It is up to the industry to adjust its business practice to current market trends. If an industry doesn't do that, then they will suffer the consequences of that choice.





*As to #1: Please stop using the term "steal." People are not stealing anything. They are copying. Yes, there is a significant difference, despite what the industry propagandists tell you.






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constant cough
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
38556 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Why is it ok to steal media?



Because Hollywood supports the very political party that wants to steal our money.






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Ross
Auburn Fan
Auburn
Member since Oct 2007
33426 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:



OK, so I may get a bit long winded and/or philosophical here, so bear with me.

1*) I disagree with your use of the term "steal."

2) There is a wealth of political philosophy that disagrees with the concept of intellectual property, and considers it simple economic protectionism.

3) Even if you do think that some IP protections are necessary, I would bet that you wouldn't agree with what is currently on the books (nor would most reasonable people). Nor would you like what you learn when you delve into the extreme corporate lobbying done by the entertainment industry in order to make IP protections more beneficial for themselves.

4) Markets operate irrespective of law and morality. It is up to the industry to adjust its business practice to current market trends. If an industry doesn't do that, then they will suffer the consequences of that choice.





*As to #1: Please stop using the term "steal." People are not stealing anything. They are copying. Yes, there is a significant difference, despite what the industry propagandists tell you.







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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


Those are good points.

I tend to liken the entertainment industry to street musicians. You're putting your product out there, but can you really expect everyone that hears it to pay you for it. It's not a perfect analogy, but it does display the environment that technology has created. Everything is in the open.






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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
34444 posts
 Online 

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Why is it ok to steal media?


Most people think they do the right thing all the time, or at the very least they think they made the right choice of the options available to them. For the most part humans rationalize the bad choices they make.

On the flip side, why is it ok for media companies to gouge their customers and not reduce the pricing and increase availability options that come with technology advances? What gives them the right to not adapt to a changing market place? They aren't doing the "right thing" either, they are doing what's in their best interest, because they can. When companies can get away with taking extra money from customers they usually do, they just tend to call it a fee rather than stealing.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22861 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


I always wondered why this wasn't an issue in the 80's when I would take blank tapes over to my friends house and record a bunch of their songs.

I don't believe it is right to steal or share or whatever you want to call it. You are taking someone's IP or goods and using them for your own entertainment and have no intention of paying for anything in return. But I also know that the only way to get some really obscure stuff is through torrents and "sharing".



This post was edited on 11/26 at 9:24 am


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musick
LSU Fan
the internet
Member since Dec 2008
8543 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


Art (be it Television, music, books, traditional art) is meant to be seen by as many people as possible. The purpose of Art is to create something you truly are proud of and spread it to the rest of human consciousness.

The $ part of it is the business side, and true artists who aren't greedy promote filesharing (see: trent reznor and NIN relasing a full length album for free, radiohead, etc) Musicians these days (the broadband age) make their money touring from merchandise rather than record sales. Hell, even in the golden age (vinyl, cassettes, CDs) the artist only got like $1-2 per $20 album. I know it doesn't make it right but it comes down to greed.

If I download a great album, I will go and purchase it from FYE or amazon online. I pay for neflix and hulu plus, so what's wrong with me downloading a show to watch at a different time (timeshifting) is it "stealing" a TV show if I pay for cable (how is that any different from DVR'ing it?)

I was at the LSU/Ole Miss game and forgot to set my DVR, so I downloaded an HD copy of it to see the broadcast of it. Is this stealing?

Movies are a bit different and more of a gray area. Movies are meant to be seen on the Big Screen so downloading a shitty cam rip or w/e when it's still in theatres is a bit more damaging IMO, because that person won't go pay for the ticket to see it most likely.






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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
34444 posts
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re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

I always wondered why this wasn't an issue in the 80's when I would take blank tapes over to my friends house and record a bunch of their songs.


It was an issue, the courts just sided with consumers when they said that "personal" copies were acceptable. The first tape I got was a cassette copy of Thriller when I was 10. The difference between then and now is that back then one legit purchase may have been copied by 2 - 10 people while today one legit purchase may be copied by millions of people. People won't produce content worth copying if the price of it is free, so we still have some changes ahead for the industry. They've been hoping to DRM their way into keeping the status quo, but what they really need to do is streamline operations so they can offer the same product for a lower price that more people are willing to pay.



This post was edited on 11/26 at 9:45 am


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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
22299 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


In general, media is just under a very bad set of circumstances. People will only buy what they believe the exchange of value is fair and even, so when you have:

1. Media as only an experience a user is trading for (even legally)
2. The limitation (and stigma) of physical property gone
3. The ease of transfer over the internet.
4. The arbitrary limitations of access that companies put media under.

Honestly, I see where the comment above is coming from, it's only a problem if you turn around and try to make money from it.

For me, the morality on the issue is becoming less and less of a factor. If companies don't embrace ways to package their technology, they'll just get lost in the fold. nI admit, I download/steal some...Experiences.

Look, I think access is the big issue in all of this at the end of it. As long as companies singularly package their products (movie tickets, DVDs, multiple rents, etc.) people will have a moral out. Even when BUYING a product and paying attention to all of their laws, you only have like 6-8 months after purchasing a DVD to download a digital copy.

Why not make accounts with each movie studio (or a major central place) that stores all of your DVD/digital purchases and give you the ability to download movies to what you want, when you want. Same with TV. The infrastructure is there and easy.

I'd easily buy more movies, tickets, etc., if they packaged them with more permanence.

Why do I watch movies again? Because I want the same experience I got before. Just because the product is an "experience" and not a physical product, doesn't mean you can charge for each time I use it.

I buy a soccer ball, I get that experience any time I want. It should be the same for all media.




This post was edited on 11/26 at 10:07 am


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
34444 posts
 Online 

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Just because the product is an "experience" and not a physical product, doesn't mean you can charge for each time I use it.


No, but if a movie costs $100 million to produce and the studios expect to make $50 million in profit on it and they can only charge you once, be it tickets, dvd, digital download, etc, the price will have to go up, and honestly not everyone wants future access. If I watch a movie in a theater it's highly unlikely I'll rent it or buy it later. If you had to pay say $20 to see a movie any time, any way you wanted, that's a worse system for most people who now only pay $10 for a ticket or < $5 to rent it.






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hiltacular
Georgia Tech Fan
FILA
Member since Jan 2011
9267 posts
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re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

The $ part of it is the business side, and true artists who aren't greedy promote filesharing (see: trent reznor and NIN relasing a full length album for free, radiohead, etc) Musicians these days (the broadband age) make their money touring from merchandise rather than record sales.


Good points. The music industry is starting to realize that file sharing is not going away anytime soon. Most artists and bands are starting to promote themselves via free file sharing in an attempt to broaden there fanbase and thus increase merch sales and the demand when they tour.

By increasing your fanbase, you increase your demand and inevitably the ticket prices which leads to them making more money.

In short, free file sharing can be beneficial to artists if done right. Especially for up and coming artists who are trying to make a name for themselves.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

if a movie costs $100 million to produce and the studios expect to make $50 million in profit on it


Don't buy into their bull shite numbers.

Hollywood Accounting: How A $19 Million Movie Makes $150 Million... And Still Isn't Profitable


another article from a more reliable source:

How Hollywood Accounting Can Make a $450 Million Movie 'Unprofitable'



frick those a-holes



This post was edited on 11/26 at 11:04 am


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Jim Rockford
LSU Fan
Member since May 2011
36799 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


The laws are so onerous and draconian, and protect massive corporations, not the artists who create the content. It's almost a patriotic duty to flaunt them.





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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22861 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


I've read those before. I can't believe that crap is even legal. Don't CEOs go to jail for similar stuff?







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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:


I don't think it makes it ok, but as technology changes, so should your business model and pricing, or consumers are going to look for a way around you. Do you remember paying 17 + for a CD with one good song on it?

What we're really seeing is a massive shift in leverage to the consumer, which I think is a good thing.


This.

And the model is now to give away IP and make money in other ways. The music industry and film industry can't seem to make that transition. Its so nature for music too....live shows. I probably drop more on going to see live music than I ever did in CDs when I paid for them. I probably spend $1500+ a year, if not close to $2k. And if you throw in travel in there, its probably close to $4k a year.

But if I can't dl the music for free, then I will go to a lot less shows.






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Brettesaurus Rex
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2009
24570 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


I used to be in a band and I was a hell of a lot more concerned with people just listening to it than buying it. Then again that wasn't my career.

But I raise the question, what's the difference from someone buying a CD and letting 6 of their friends rip it into their computer? Why is it so wrong to upload it and then let others have it as well?






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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
34444 posts
 Online 

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Don't buy into their bull shite numbers.


I pulled those numbers out of my ass, the point being that they won't take less money to accommodate consumers, at best you'll get them to agree to take the same amount of money meaning the price for seeing a movie would go up for most people.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22861 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

what's the difference from someone buying a CD and letting 6 of their friends rip it into their computer? Why is it so wrong to upload it and then let others have it as well?
Well in that situation, there is no difference. The problem is money. Using Freaux's example, no one would have a problem with you sharing a soccer ball with your 6 friends. But the difference is, you can't clone a soccer ball and give it away to your 6 friends.

I'm thinking if there were an NFL jersey cloning machine and I decided to pay 100 bucks for a jersey, clone it 100 times and sell each of them for less or just give them away, the NFL would have a problem with that and so would the player.

The argument of course is that the most people wouldn't have otherwise bought the jersey and the NFL and the player really isn't losing any money. But some people may have bought the jersey at full price and now they don't need to.

It really is a sticky situation.






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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
22299 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

No, but if a movie costs $100 million to produce and the studios expect to make $50 million in profit on it and they can only charge you once, be it tickets, dvd, digital download, etc, the price will have to go up, and honestly not everyone wants future access. If I watch a movie in a theater it's highly unlikely I'll rent it or buy it later. If you had to pay say $20 to see a movie any time, any way you wanted, that's a worse system for most people who now only pay $10 for a ticket or < $5 to rent it.


I didn't say you'd have only ONE option to purchase it. I'm talking all about OPTIONS and ACCESS. Not limitations.

Of course saying "You can onlky spend $20 on this and you have access whenever you want, but that's it," is limiting and dumb.

But maybe there's just the OPTION o pay $20 and get more access, rather than the $13 movie ticket, the $25 blu ray and dvd, the $10 digital copy if your included one runs out, etc. Or maybe there's a subscription service, beyond Netflix, that can also track your movie purchases.

OPTIONS and ACCESS. I still refuse to think that MOST Downloaders download JUST because it's free. They download because it's easy and ubiquitous, not necessarily because it's free.






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Fewer Kilometers
LA-Lafayette Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
9392 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


This has been going on since recordable reel to reel audio tape first became available to the public. We've all been brought up in a world where media (for the most part) is free. Radio and TV have fed into our homes at no charge, and now that we have an opportunity to get additional music and video for free, it's easy to see no fault in it.

I didn't grow up with folks giving my family free food and clothing. So those items have a different value to me than non physical items like music and video that have always been available free of charge.

My take anyway. I may think differently when those 3D Scanner/Duplicators become available and allow us to produce copies of solid objects in our homes.






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