Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. - Page 6 - TigerDroppings.com

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WildTchoupitoulas
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Now, if you say they fought to uphold a social safety-net grounded in white supremacist ideology, that's a far superior claim with which I cannot really disagree.

Quite simply they fought because they were young men - but mostly they fought because they were drafted. By 1864 the desertion rate in the Confederacy was devastating.

They thought it would be quick and easy, that the North didn't really have the stomach to fight as the Southerners didn't really see a seminal cause for the North.


“You people of the South don’t know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don’t know what you’re talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth—right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”

- LSU's first superintendant (W. T. Sherman) to who would be LSU's fourth superintendant (D. F. Boyd), December 1860



I confess, without shame, that I am sick and tired of fighting — its glory is all moonshine; even success the most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies, with the anguish and lamentations of distant families, appealing to me for sons, husbands, and fathers ... it is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated ... that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation.

- W. T. Sherman, May 1865



This post was edited on 11/22 at 11:22 am


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JB14
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Member since May 2012
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Quite simply they fought because they were young men - but mostly they fought because they were drafted. By 1864 the desertion rate in the Confederacy was devastating.


I can certainly agree with this, although I'm not sure it adequately explains the initial surge of volunteering. Interactions of southern honor, evangelicalism, etc. as explored by Bertram Wyatt-Brown seems to help, in addition to the factors you listed above, though.

Another poster commenting on what I guess we can now call the Civil War in historical memory seemed to suggest that there is an ever-present need to rationalize our ancestors' participation in the Civil War. As if slave-ownership were a necessary pre-condition for enlistment, and fighting in the Civil War rendered one a de-facto reprobate. My point was simply to illuminate how ridiculous a statement that was, and again, how much more complex soldiers' motivations were.

If anyone is interested in the subject James McPherson has an interesting book, "For Cause and Comrades," that goes into all this stuff. He posits a tri-partite division of motivation: "initial," "sustaining," and "combat." Good stuff.



This post was edited on 11/22 at 11:39 am


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WildTchoupitoulas
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


My slave-owning great-great grandfather was an officer in the 7th Louisiana Cavalry, and was in supporting action outside of Mansfield when Gen. Mouton fell. I suspect he mostly signed up to protect his property, he never went to Virginia as the La. 7th Cav fought exclusively in Louisiana. He was also a member of the Lafayette Vigilance Committee before the War to protect his property.

BTW, the bulk of his farm is still in the family today.






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TheDoc
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

of course


What if the south used it for a bargaining chip?






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Darth_Vader
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


Before anyone comments on Lincoln's stance on slavery and whether or not the war was about slavery, they should first read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley.

LINK

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."







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tiger1014
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.








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VOR
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Before anyone comments on Lincoln's stance on slavery and whether or not the war was about slavery, they should first read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley.


Lincoln was a politician. He wrote a letter to a newspaperman. and he had his reasons. You cannot divine Lincoln's state of mind or opinion by looking at an isolated moment in time or an isolated event.






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1fairbank
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

tiger1014



The Civil War is taught differently in the North than in the South. In the North, they teach that the war was about slavery. In the South, they teach that the war is about the south's attempt to separate from the rest of the Union because the federal government under Lincoln might begin to remove "State's Rights".

The southern schools did a pretty good job of removing slavery from the textbooks, while northern schools mostly omit everything but the influence of slavery on starting the war. Really, it seems like the schools in the north kinda regret not letting the south go when they had the chance.






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mograyback
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


I'm seriously appalled that I've been called a Yankee on this board (the football board). And I know more about this shite than most of you.

It's hilarious. "Feelings"... it was about feelings really? People really think it was about slavery.

MONEY. MONEY. MONEY. CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL.

It was about changing the financial landscape of this country and installing what has now become a very large federal government. It was not about freedom, morals had nothing to do with it.

I always thought that the saddest part of the Civil War is it took the finest men of the South, and by God it is the fricking truth. Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves.



This post was edited on 11/22 at 4:39 pm


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tiger1014
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

I always thought that the saddest part of the Civil War is it took the finest men of the South


Amen






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

And I know more about this shite than most of you.




Because of the same standard of serious research and logic you've demonstrated in your 9/11 thread?






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BFIV
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


This continues to be a very, very interesting thread discussion. Lots of historians here.


This post was edited on 11/22 at 9:01 pm


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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3121 posts

re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

That is of course how it is justified to the ignorant and uneducated who mainly fought the war , but in reality it was about slavery,

Please list all other countries that required a civil war to end slavery...


I'll hang up and listen






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CerealKilla
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


Because no one ever fought about slavery, then it's impossible to have a fight about slavery?





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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Because no one ever fought about slavery, then it's impossible to have a fight about slavery?

Because every country that ended slavery before or after the US did, did so without resorting to killing 600,000 of its own, is pretty much all the proof you need that war was NOT the answer to the slavery question.


Therefore, you have to ask yourself, why did we go to war? Because the answer is NOT "to end slavery." As demonstrated by every country, civilized or not, that has existed on this marble at anytime in history !!






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emigretiger
Member since Mar 2007
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


you are so full of shite your eyes are brrown or maybe red





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Bayou Sam
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

It's hilarious. "Feelings"... it was about feelings really? People really think it was about slavery.

MONEY. MONEY. MONEY. CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL.


What could be more ludicrous than a hysterical bitch on a message board complaining that the North's war against Southern slave-holding interests was about "money and control"?

Aristotle had a theory of natural slavery. You fit it.






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mograyback
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Member since Jul 2011
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:


What could be more ludicrous than a hysterical bitch on a message board complaining that the North's war against Southern slave-holding interests was about "money and control"?


Are you even being serious?

Thanks to this thread I have an entirely different perspective of southern men, this is really incredible. I would never in my life have guessed I'd find these type of responses on an SEC site.

You don't think it was about money and control? That's fascinating.







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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
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Member since Apr 2009
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Because every country that ended slavery before or after the US did, did so without resorting to killing 600,000 of its own, is pretty much all the proof you need that war was NOT the answer to the slavery question.


Sorry, but that doesn't constitute proof of any kind whatsoever. Each country and set of circumstances is unique.






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sugar71
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Member since Jun 2012
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re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame.


quote:

Because every country that ended slavery before or after the US did, did so without resorting to killing 600,000 of its own, is pretty much all the proof you need that war was NOT the answer to the slavery question.


This fact just shows the unreasonable paranoia of Southerners.

Obama is perhaps the greatest 'gun & ammo selling' Presidents of all time due to the same type of Southern ignorance & demagoguery.






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