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GumboPot 
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| Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:31 am)
If Lincoln truly fought the Civil War to end slavery could somebody please post a link to documention of Lincoln's abolitionist stance prior to April 12, 1861? Thanks.
This post was edited on 11/21 at 11:13 am
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Powerman
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:34 am to GumboPot)
What do you think the civil war was about?
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junkfunky
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:37 am to Powerman)
quote:
What do you think the civil war was about?
Feelings.
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doubleb
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:38 am to junkfunky)
The war was fought to save the union.
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Homesick Tiger
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:38 am to GumboPot)
All I know is that Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back to their homeland but Congress said no. Word is that Obama's white side of lineage saw possible votes from his black side 143 years later in order to help the U.S. elect its first black president.
Too bad the ancestors didn't leave a couple of pages of notes on how to run a country. Could have been useful. 
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theunknownknight
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:40 am to GumboPot)
The Civil War wasn't about Slavery. That's liberal propaganda. Do some research, read some of the old news papers at the time. The issue of the war ran much deeper. Slavery was the moral justification the North claimed to invade the south when they peacefully and legally seceded. You wanna know what the war was really about? Money and power.
This post was edited on 11/21 at 10:41 am
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GumboPot
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:40 am to Powerman)
The right for a state to separate from the union and exist autonomous. But I know that these states wanted autonomy for very cheap slave labor.
This does not answer my question tho.
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Powerman
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:41 am to GumboPot)
This seems like a rather absurd question
Bush claimed to have a foreign policy of non intervention and look how that turned out
A lot of things that Obama has said haven't come to fruition
At the end of the day the emancipation proclamation was issued by the executive branch of the government. That might give you a clue as to how Lincoln felt on the issue. Do you think that he would have drug the country into war if it weren't something as serious as slavery?
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theunknownknight
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:43 am to Powerman)
quote:
At the end of the day the emancipation proclamation was issued by the executive branch of the government
Did not free a single slave. Research it. In fact, Lincoln was going to allow slave states to KEEP slaves if they willingly returned to the union. What does that tell you?
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LSURussian
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:44 am to Powerman)
quote:
What do you think the civil war was about?
Obamacare.....
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GumboPot
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:45 am to Powerman)
quote:
At the end of the day the emancipation proclamation was issued by the executive branch of the government. That might give you a clue as to how Lincoln felt on the issue. Do you think that he would have drug the country into war if it weren't something as serious as slavery?
Countries devolve in civil wars for other reasons other than abolition of slavery. Also the EP was sighed TWO years into the Civil War. Why wait that long?
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wavebreaker
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:45 am to theunknownknight)
Good summary!
Lincoln suspended habeus corpus, jailed political opponents, banned free press, engaged in criminal warfare against non soldiers, and was a good PR move getting shot.
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theunknownknight
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:47 am to GumboPot)
quote:
Countries devolve in civil wars for other reasons other than abolition of slavery. Also the EP was sighed TWO years into the Civil War. Why wait that long?
The original reason for the EP was the exact OPPOSITE of what people claim today. It's funny how the victors write the history book.
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baybeefeetz
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:47 am to GumboPot)
quote:
In fact, Lincoln was always keenly aware that slavery, though morally wrong in his eyes, was sanctioned by law, and he frequently acknowledged that the rights of slave owners, both to retain their slaves and to have fugitive slaves returned, were clearly guaranteed in the Constitution. Before the outbreak of civil war, he advocated nothing that would directly challenge those rights. This position sharply distinguished him from abolitionists, many of whom were actively involved in supporting runaway slaves, and all of whom viewed the returning of fugitive slaves as unconscionable, whatever the Constitution might dictate. The most radical abolitionists openly denounced the Constitution for its protection of slavery and repudiated its authority.
LINK
consider the source (I am not familiar with it).
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GumboPot
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:47 am to LSURussian)
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Homesick Tiger
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:47 am to LSURussian)
quote:
Obamacare
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GumboPot
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:51 am to baybeefeetz)
Thanks for the link.
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Baloo
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:51 am to GumboPot)
I highly recommend the book The Fiery Trial about the development of Lincoln's beliefs on slavery. And he didn't take an "abolitionist" stance until later in his presidency. But he was always anti-slavery.
His famed "House Divided" speed was in 1858:
LINK
quote:
"I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free.
I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided.
It will become all one thing or all the other.
Either the opponents of slavery, will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new -- North as well as South."
Also in 1858, one of the primary issues of the Lincoln-Douglas Deabtes was slavery:
LINK
quote:
Historian Stephen Oates noted that Mr. Lincoln "complained bitterly that race was not the issue between him and Douglas. The issue was whether slavery would ultimately triumph or ultimately perish in the United States. But Douglas understood the depth of anti-Negro feeling in Illinois, and he hoped to whip Lincoln by playing on white racial fears. And so he kept warning white crowds: Do you want Negroes to flood into Illinois, cover the prairies with black settlements, and eat, sleep, and marry with white people? If you do, then vote for Lincoln and the 'Black Republicans.'"
But whether the civil War is "about" slavery is of course overly reductive, but yes, it was the primary issue. Want to know how we know this? Because the Southern secessionists told us so. They made no secret that the reason for secession was to preserve slavery and white supremacy. It was the over-arching debate in American politics for nearly 40 years. No one was being coy.
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RollTide1987 
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:52 am to GumboPot)
Lincoln did not wage the war to end slavery, at least not at first. Lincoln ran for president in 1860 on a platform of non-expansion. That means he was opposed to the expansion of slavery into the western territories. The fathers of the South, however, were of the opinion that slavery could only survive if it continued to expand. Just read their words. They wanted to expand slavery west to California and south into Mexico and South America. If slavery stopped expanding, they said, it would die. That is why they seceded when Lincoln was elected because they knew that Lincoln, with a Republican majority in Congress, would prevent further states from coming into the Union as slave states.
This is well-documented in the words of the people of the time as well as the declarations of secession of states like Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, and South Carolina. There would have been no secession crisis if it had not been for the institution of slavery and, therefore, there would have been no Civil War.
For the last time, the North did not fight the Civil War to end slavery! If you were to go back in time, say to 1863, and tell a Union soldier (especially an Irish one) that they were fighting to free slaves, he would knock your teeth out. Many of the Union soldiers were just as racist and as bigoted toward blacks as their Confederate counterparts. BUT...that doesn't take away from the fact that the Confederate government fought the Civil War to preserve the institution of slavery.
Anyone who denies slavery was the root cause of secession and civil war are just in heavy denial and are in the midst of rationalizing how their ancestors could have fought and died in a war over something so cruel and so evil as the institution of slavery. Either that, or they are libertarian neo-Confederates who believe that, no matter the reason for their secession, the South had every right to do so.
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slackhouse 
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| re: Serious question about Lincoln and the Civil War, no flame. (Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:53 am to GumboPot)
the Civil War was completely about keeping the states in the Union and keeping those resources the states had for the greater good of the Union. having a separate country with the resources the south had at the time would have been a great threat to the Union.
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