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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36779 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:55 am to RollTide1987)
quote:
but the North American-International Slave Trade ended in 1808 - decades before the outbreak of civil war.
And the then colony of Virginia was the first to ban the slave trade in 1774, some 34 years prior.
Let's be honest here. Northern and Southern wealth was built upon the backs of chattel slavery.
In the south, the wealthy plantation owners and supporting industry, and in the north the manufacturing, textile, and merchants as well as the entire US government that benifited for a long time from the low cost of labor, kind of similar to how we do now in some regard.
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Godfather1 
LSU Fan
Home Sweet Home SE Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
26242 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:56 am to dewster)
quote:
I wonder how things would have been different had he not been assacinated.
Reconstruction might've gone a lot smoother. Andrew Johnson was set up for impeachment for basically trying to implement Lincoln's plan for the post-war South. Lincoln had enough political capital built up that it's doubtful they'd have tried that with him had he lived.
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GumboPot
LSU Fan
Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2009
17415 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:56 am to TenTex)
Yeah, no.
I'm not going see a movie based on revisionist history.
Lincoln was responsible for +620,000 deaths. That is blood on this hands. He could have prevented it. There was a better path...a path to peace and freedom. He chose to have his generals under his command to rape and slaughter 100,000's of women and children. I'd rather not idolize a tyrant like that. He should be lump in with other tyrannical leaders through history, like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. And don't give me this bull shite rationalization that he did it to free the slaves. The emancipation proclamation was enacted TWO years into the war. Furthermore the rest of the western world was FREEING SLAVES PEACEFULLY. The fact that Lincoln couldn't free the slaves peacefully (because he had no real intention to) like the rest of the western world illustrates what an utter failure of a presidency the Lincoln administration was. And the fact that he was responsible for +620,000 deaths shows what a utter despot he REALLY was. But you ignore the plain facts and continue your hero worship based on revisionist history.
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Patrick O Rly 
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25678 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:57 am to Godfather1)
quote:
The myth of Lincoln as this great abolitionist is just that...a myth.
It really is.
And the southern states were talking out of both sides of their mouth by claiming to fight for liberty while subjugating a whole race of people.
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mikeymike
LSU Fan
The North Shore
Member since Dec 2004
2514 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:59 am to Patrick O Rly)
Saw the movie Sunday. Great ACTING, story sucked. Don't waste 2.5hrs of your life watching this bullshitee.......
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dewster 
Maryland Fan
TN
Member since Aug 2006
4439 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:00 am to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
And the southern states were talking out of both sides of their mouth by claiming to fight for liberty while subjugating a whole race of people.
Also true.
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GumboPot
LSU Fan
Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2009
17415 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:00 am to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
It really is.
quote:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”
by:
Abraham Lincoln
(1809-1865) 16th US President
Anybody that can revere a man with these views... 
This post was edited on 11/20 at 10:03 am
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mikeymike
LSU Fan
The North Shore
Member since Dec 2004
2514 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:01 am to GumboPot)
^^^^^^ This^^^^^^
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lsu480 
Arizona State Fan
1488 posts
Member since Oct 2007
48060 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:02 am to GumboPot)
He did say that! 
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2165 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:02 am to Godfather1)
quote:
Go back and read your history.
The Emancipation Proclamation that people so herald Lincoln for was little more than a punitive measure against the South (which Lincoln never viewed as a sovereign nation despite secession). It did nothing to free the slaves in states that didn't secede.
The myth of Lincoln as this great abolitionist is just that...a myth.
The EP was something put in place as part of the war and was based on war powers. Don't act like Lincoln wasn't against slavery because the 13th didn't go into effect for a few years. Northern states already abolished it and the 13th couldn't really be done until the war was over. Pretty difficult to get a 2/3 vote in Congress with half of the country not there.
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GumboPot
LSU Fan
Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2009
17415 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:03 am to lsu480)
quote:
He did say that!
Yep in the Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858
Just google it.
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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36779 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:04 am to GumboPot)
Lincoln wanted to send them back to their native climate if I'm not mistaken.
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Turbeauxdog
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2004
4709 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:04 am to mmcgrath)
quote:
Don't act like Lincoln wasn't against slavery because the 13th didn't go into effect for a few years
He didn't oppose slavery because he didn't oppose slavery , regardless of the timing of the 13th
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GumboPot
LSU Fan
Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2009
17415 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:05 am to mmcgrath)
quote:
The EP was something put in place as part of the war and was based on war powers. Don't act like Lincoln wasn't against slavery because the 13th didn't go into effect for a few years. Northern states already abolished it and the 13th couldn't really be done until the war was over. Pretty difficult to get a 2/3 vote in Congress with half of the country not there.
Freeing the slaves could have been done without a war. The rest fo the western world demonstrated that fact.
This post was edited on 11/20 at 10:06 am
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2165 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:10 am to GumboPot)
quote:
Freeing the slaves could have been done without a war. The rest fo the western world demonstrated that fact.
We went to war because the south was seceding. The secession was related to slavery.
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PillageUrVillage
LSU Fan
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
1874 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:11 am to mmcgrath)
We went to war over money
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RollTide1987 
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:14 am to PillageUrVillage)
quote:
We went to war over money
Yep. The $7 billion industry that was slavery. That's the only reason why the South seceded. It all had to do with money.
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AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
9999 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:15 am to Gmorgan4982)
quote:
But he started the war and I believe slavery would have gone away without a war just as it had in many European nations.
I am pretty sure that the South started the War by firing on Fort Sumter. Secession had happened and Lincoln did not send troops to the South right away. Of course, War was inevitable at that point. But, the South started it - not Lincoln.
I can appreciate the political and philosophical and Constitutional argument of the Southern states while still recognizing that they lost their moral standing to make those arguments because their real motivation was the defense of human slavery. I am not saying that the North was not guilty either or that they were not acting hypocritically. I am saying that the South should have dealt with its own problems first. But, since it refused to do so and went to war to defend its way of life, it ended up on the ash heap of history where it belonged.
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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36779 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:15 am to mmcgrath)
quote:
We went to war because the south was seceding. The secession was related to slavery.
True, and neither freeing the slaves nor invading to prevent a democratic secession is a constitutional issue to warrant invasion.
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2165 posts
| re: Go see Lincoln the Movie and get Grounded (Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:18 am to GumboPot)
quote:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”
by:
Abraham Lincoln
(1809-1865) 16th US President
The dude was against slavery, even in the Lincoln Douglas debates in 1858.
You didn't really expect him to grant suffrage, integrate schools, and end discrimination in 1866 did you? Maybe affirmative action in 1867? Appoint some black judges in 1868? The guy was ahead of his time but come on.... Maybe you would like to criticize Henry Ford for not inventing a traction control system for the Model T?
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