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Lsut81 
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2005
54909 posts
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| Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:09 pm)
This is fricking ridiculous... The bankruptcy judge orders something and the Union won't agree, so Hostess moves to shut down, and now the Judge is pushing them towards arbitration... 
Hostess should refuse arbitration and shut down. frick the Unions.
quote:
Hostess Brands Inc. and its second largest union will go into mediation to try and resolve their differences, meaning the Irving, Texas-based company won't go out of business just yet. The news came Monday after Hostess moved to liquidate and sell off its assets in bankruptcy court citing a crippling strike last week.
The bankruptcy judge hearing the case says that the parties haven't gone through the critical step of mediation and asked the lawyer for the bakery's union to ask his client, who wasn't present, if he would agree to participate.
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50Mullets
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
1078 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:15 pm to Lsut81)
Damn. That's how Obama's going to save the economy. Make it impossible to go out of business.
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ApexTiger
LSU Fan
cary nc
Member since Oct 2003
28171 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:17 pm to 50Mullets)
LOL
this won't end well for the Union workers...
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Archie Bengal Bunker 
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:20 pm to Lsut81)
Unions can be shitty, but guess what, so can corporations. Long before the take, take, taking Unions, was the owner/ corp fricking the employee. The individual usually has little power in the job process, especially in low ranking jobs. Unions can serve a purpose.
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50Mullets
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
1078 posts
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False
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Lsut81
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2005
54909 posts
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quote:
The individual usually has little power in the job process, especially in low ranking jobs. Unions can serve a purpose.
Really, so I guess all of the labor laws and entities like OSHA are pointless? 
Unions serve no purpose but to bully businesses into agreements that cannot be sustained. frick UNIONS
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BFIV
Member since Apr 2012
1008 posts
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quote:
Unions can serve a purpose.
Yes, they can, they have, and they still do. Study your history of the labor movement. I wish some of Andrew Carnegie's workers were still alive to tell you about what they endured. I wish you could speak with and listen to some of those coal miners like my grandfather who were working in 36" thick coal seams 12 hours/day, six days/week and being paid with company script instead of legal currency. I wish you could speak with some of those 9 and 12 year old kids who mined coal right beside their fathers and swept the floors and oiled the machines in the textile mills. I could go on and on as to why we enjoy the working conditions and hours we now take for granted. Unions put a stop to these abuses. If you don't like unions, that is your right. But I contend that if you feel that way, then don't accept your overtime pay, don't complain about unsafe working conditions, don't ever request workers comp if you get hurt on the job, and don't be ashamed to hire out your adolescent son or daughter to work in some sweat shop.
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wm72
New York/Roma
Member since Mar 2010
3118 posts
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quote:
Unions can be shitty, but guess what, so can corporations. Long before the take, take, taking Unions, was the owner/ corp fricking the employee. The individual usually has little power in the job process, especially in low ranking jobs. Unions can serve a purpose.
Completely agree.
A lot of southerners, like myself, grew up with decent health and dental benefits and a father with a job paying enough to pay off a home, usually only having working 40 hours a week so he had time to coach a little league baseball team due to unions.
This is not to mention the many who gave their lives fighting to bring the powers of this country kicking and screaming out of the near serfdom of the early twentieth century.
Unions have played a vital role in the development of America. They, like corporations or governments, are subject to abuses of power but they remain an important check against corporate power that would seek only to serve itself.
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LSUgusto
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
15576 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:49 pm to Lsut81)
I knew it would go like this. The shut down is just a part of negotiations with unions.
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TheHiddenFlask 
Clemson Fan
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
16383 posts
Online
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:01 pm to LSUgusto)
Similar to politics, I don't think unions are the inherent problem, it's the scum that rises to the top in unions (union bosses = politicians).
These pieces of scum lead the blind masses (union members) on a path of brain washing so that they can suck the life out of the company for their own profit (via higher wages to employers funneling a percentage back to them).
In reality, if you are watching a machine, you probably won't be paid that much as it wouldn't be that hard to train a monkey to do many of the jobs union workers do (I'm pretty sure I could train a monkey to mount a tire, which isn't all that low on the totem poll of difficulty).
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263416 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:04 pm to wm72)
quote:
Unions have played a vital role in the development of America.
so did the telegraph
care to invest in a telegraph company?
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HubbaBubba 
USA Fan
Bloemee, TX
Member since Oct 2010
4986 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:42 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
Unions have played a vital role in the development of America.
quote:
so did the telegraph
care to invest in a telegraph company?
So have bayonets and horses.
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BFIV
Member since Apr 2012
1008 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:44 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
so did the telegraph
care to invest in a telegraph company?
Invalid analogy. Apples and oranges.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263416 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:50 pm to BFIV)
quote:
Invalid analogy. Apples and oranges.
i don't dislike unions. if 2 private groups want to contract amongst themselves then they should be free to do so
but just because unions ONCE served a purpose doesn't mean that their impact on safety is anything more than a passage in a textbook. other bodies have emerged to regulate workplace safety and to protect workers
i personally am not a "union guy." i don't want some union boss restricting what i can earn, how i get promoted, etc
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LSUBrad5277
LSU Fan
North Louisiana
Member since Jan 2011
8204 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:50 pm to SlowFlowPro)
dont know the specific cash amounts so I'll use where I work at.
hourly workers average around $16.00 hr.
hostess wanted an 8% paycut so that would have been reduced to $ 14.72 hr times 40 hr work week for $588.80 dollars a week minus taxes, etc.
Now instead the union has said lets go on strike, they shut down and now you will get around $260 a week in unemployment benefits and no health care.
$588 seems alot better to me than $260 unless you want to sit on your fat lazy arse and get paid from the taxes I pay in because I'm a grown arse man and go to my job and earn an honest living
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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
WhereverTheArmySendsUs
Member since Nov 2009
7478 posts
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quote:
Unions can serve a purpose.
Absolutely.
Bankruptcy.
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kengel2
LSU Fan
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
4615 posts
Online
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 8:13 pm to LSUBrad5277)
quote:
LSUBrad5277
Holy crap, someone else figured out that some money is better is no money.
I thought I was the only one.
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BFIV
Member since Apr 2012
1008 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 8:32 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i don't dislike unions. if 2 private groups want to contract amongst themselves then they should be free to do so
Agree with this. The argument for a union shop has often been, and with great validity still, that if a business needs to sign a contract with its customer or client, why should that same business be reluctant to sign a contract with its employees? Flipping that question around, we can also ask that if a company does not want to sign a contract with its employees, why doesn't it also refuse to sign a contract with its customers or clients? This is a rhetorical question to which we all know the answer, but don't want to admit it.
quote:
ut just because unions ONCE served a purpose doesn't mean that their impact on safety is anything more than a passage in a textbook. other bodies have emerged to regulate workplace safety and to protect workers
Workplace safety is but one issue concerning a union shop or non-union shop. With a union shop, safety issues can be addressed with OSHA or the state agency without fear of retaliation by the company when the company is reluctant or refuses to address safety issues. Blue collar industries have taken decades and decades to learn that a safe workplace is a profitable workplace. Some companies still haven't learned this lesson and believe that a safe workplace is too expensive and cuts into profits. Safe working environments are as necessary to making widgets as are having the components to manufacture that widget. My original point is that unions made it possible for the emergence of these "bodies" to enforce safe working conditions.
quote:
i don't want some union boss restricting what i can earn, how i get promoted, etc
I wouldn't want that either, and that's not the way it works. What you earn and how you get promoted is based on job skills or job responsibilities and plant (company) seniority in the unions with which I have been involved. This is to prevent age discrimination and job promotions based on either "I like you." or "I don't like you."
As long as there are companies which do not treat their employees with dignity, respect, and fairness, there will be unions. Companies have come a LONG way in the last 60 years in learning this lesson. Union membership continues to decline because companies have finally figured out that the best way to avoid a union shop is to create a workplace where a union is not necessary. And yes, I will admit that there are and have been union abuses as well as corporate abuses. Just as with politicians, when one side gets the upper hand, you will see these abuses emerge. Any reasonable union member will tell you that they want their employer to remain profitable. Without profit, there is no job. Just don't believe everything you have been told by those who are anti-union. They just may not have ever "been there/done that". Sorry for the long winded post. It's just that I do have years of experience in dealing with both sides of the issue.
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BFIV
Member since Apr 2012
1008 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 8:37 pm to TheHiddenFlask)
quote:
In reality, if you are watching a machine, you probably won't be paid that much as it wouldn't be that hard to train a monkey to do many of the jobs union workers do
Got to disagree with you here. I don't think you could train a monkey to be a millwright, welder, electrician, or pipefitter, for instance. Watching a machine and operating a machine are not the same thing.
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50Mullets
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
1078 posts
| re: Hostess and Union to Arbitration (Posted on 11/19/12 at 8:38 pm to BFIV)
quote:
This is to prevent age discrimination and job promotions based on either "I like you." or "I don't like you."
No, it prevents merit based promotions. It encourages promotions based on either "I like you." or "I don't like you." except that it is the union leaders of the local chapter that get to make the decision, not the business owner. All it accomplishes is replacing competition with cronyism.
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