| Posted by | Message |
asurob1 
Arizona State Fan
Arizona
Member since May 2009
5664 posts
|
quote:
hey asurob1 has made it can't keep him away from topics dealing with the war on women.
Hey Catholictigerfan has made it, can't keep him away from topics dealing with how he wants to oppress women.
|
| Back to top | |
MrTide33 
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
1401 posts
|
quote:
this thread just won't die.
|
| Back to top | |
MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
1401 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:19 am to taylork37)
quote:
Where that point is, is such a grey area and will never be agreed upon.
Science will solve it for good some day
Others will argue it, some will argue murder is sometimes the right option, but science will continue to fight for the unborn.
quote:
but I also think it takes some serious mental gymnastics to say that killing a freshly fertilized egg is somehow murder.
I can see what youre saying, but the idea there is that that very first cell is an autonomous living human entity with unique DNA. Human beings are given an inalienable right to life. What does it take to be a human being? Being human. After this personhood arguments and such come in.
quote:
But to say that the murderer has the same amount of rights as that mother is ridiculous to me.
In this case, you cannot simply give the mother a right to kill her child at say 10 weeks and call it reproductive rights and then somebody else kills it and its called murder. Innocent human life is innocent human life. If the mother has some superceding authority to take that life, then what's the difference when the child is born?
|
| Back to top | |
ShoeBang 
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since May 2012
2059 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:27 am to MrTide33)
The "right to choose" is bull shite.
The child in the womb did not "choose" to be there. It was put there by its mother and father. If you are fricking without wrapping it up, pulling out, taking the pill, or any of the other million ways to prevent pregnancy, you have to deal with the consequences. You created a new life. From the moment the sperm fertilized the egg, that is a human life IMO.
Now you choose to deny a human being the right to have a life? You choose to kill it before it grows? Why? Because you "don't have time" or you're "not ready"? Well you sure as hell were ready to frick weren't you? Now deal with the fact that you created a life and it has the undeniable right to live. That child in the womb is not responsible for your life situation. The ultimate act of selfishness is to deny someone something that you were not denied.
Go ahead and try to justify that it isn't human. One thing is a fact: a freshly fertilized egg, at the absolute least, has the POTENTIAL to become a human at some point. Snuffing that out (IMO) is just as egregious as murder.
This is not a war on women. This is not oppressing women's rights. It's about the right to life. Every fertilized egg should be given the chance to come to term that we were all afforded.
|
| Back to top | |
taylork37 
Ohio State Fan
The social pipeline
Member since Mar 2010
6641 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:33 am to MrTide33)
quote:
I can see what youre saying, but the idea there is that that very first cell is an autonomous living human entity with unique DNA. Human beings are given an inalienable right to life. What does it take to be a human being? Being human. After this personhood arguments and such come in.
That's the debate. I don't think a freshly fertilized egg is a human being. Human DNA, autonomous or not. That does not automatically make it an unborn child worthy of classifying anyone ending that fertilized egg murderer.
quote:
In this case, you cannot simply give the mother a right to kill her child at say 10 weeks and call it reproductive rights and then somebody else kills it and its called murder
We are talking about the current law in place. With that in mind, this argument is not applicable because the mother currently does have this right. A separate person does not have this right. I'm not saying the law is right, I am just saying that the validity of the argument that a person other than the mother has just as much right to end the unborn childs life under the current law is questionable.
|
| Back to top | |
taylork37
Ohio State Fan
The social pipeline
Member since Mar 2010
6641 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:35 am to ShoeBang)
quote:
One thing is a fact: a freshly fertilized egg, at the absolute least, has the POTENTIAL to become a human at some point.
I apologize for picking and choosing through your argument, but you can argue that an egg or a sperm by themselves has at least the potential to become a human. Thus making any sort of contraception you are referring to just as bad.
I'm not saying that the sperm or eggs by themselves are the same "human" classification as the fertilized egg, but by your argument of potential life they are in the same classification.
This post was edited on 11/15 at 10:37 am
|
| Back to top | |
ShoeBang
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since May 2012
2059 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:37 am to taylork37)
quote:
I apologize for picking and choosing through your argument, but you can argue that an egg or a sperm by themselves has at least the potential to become a human. Thus making any sort of contraception you are referring to just as bad. I'm not saying that the sperm or eggs by themselves are the same "human" classification as the fertilized egg, but by your argument of potential life they are in the same classification.
You are right. I chose to leave the fact that I think contraception is wrong out of the argument to stay true to the topic. I believe contraception is the lesser of the two evils.
I would much rather see there be no fertilization than a termination.
This post was edited on 11/15 at 10:40 am
|
| Back to top | |
MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
1401 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:39 am to taylork37)
quote:
I am just saying that the validity of the argument that a person other than the mother has just as much right to end the unborn childs life under the current law is questionable
It's currently definitely a right held for the mother and not an outside murderer. Unfortunately, the position cannot stand, because either the fetus is a living human being with a right to life that nobody can trample on, or the fetus is simply a human that is developing with no right to life that is simply conisdered an extention of the womans body. OR the mother can kill her child at any stage of life for any reason
|
| Back to top | |
MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
1401 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:41 am to ShoeBang)
quote:
I chose to leave the fact that I think contraception is wrong
I do not see contraception as wrong simply because it does not kill a human being
|
| Back to top | |
asurob1
Arizona State Fan
Arizona
Member since May 2009
5664 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:06 pm to ShoeBang)
quote:
You are right. I chose to leave the fact that I think contraception is wrong out of the argument to stay true to the topic. I believe contraception is the lesser of the two evils.
I would much rather see there be no fertilization than a termination.
This is the argument that all anti abortionists should make.
exactly. The anti abortion lobby entertains me because they sneak around things like this.
every sperm is in fact sacred.
|
| Back to top | |
catholictigerfan 
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:41 pm to asurob1)
quote:
Hey Catholictigerfan has made it, can't keep him away from topics dealing with how he wants to oppress women.
yep you have figured me out 
|
| Back to top | |
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:52 pm to ShoeBang)
quote:
. I believe contraception is the lesser of the two evils.
if its an evil why allow it?
|
| Back to top | |
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:54 pm to ShoeBang)
quote:
Go ahead and try to justify that it isn't human. One thing is a fact: a freshly fertilized egg, at the absolute least, has the POTENTIAL to become a human at some point. Snuffing that out (IMO) is just as egregious as murder.
if you going to say that a fertilized egg is a potential human being then abortion can still be allowed in that case. A sperm is a potential human being when it mixes with an egg, it goes from potentially human to actually human.
something that is potentially isn't the actual thing, it must be actually a human being.
This argument won't lead you anywhere, if your trying to argue against abortion.
This post was edited on 11/15 at 1:59 pm
|
| Back to top | |
Archie Bengal Bunker 
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
14045 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:55 pm to ShoeBang)
So, should there be criminal statutes for masturbation murder? wet dream manslaughter? What about women that don't have children? Should they have to pay a fine for every unfertilized egg that gets passed each month? That was a potential child!
|
| Back to top | |
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:57 pm to asurob1)
quote:
every sperm is in fact sacred.
you are being to much like kant you are taking your own concepts and putting into the sense data, our arguments, and thinking that is actually the truth. (sorry I just wrote a paper on Kant it is on my mind)
but no sane pro-lifer would ever make this argument.
even basic science denies this, if we say this then we we are truly idiots.
This post was edited on 11/15 at 2:04 pm
|
| Back to top | |
BeeFense5 
Notre Dame Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2010
15787 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 2:01 pm to asurob1)
quote:
asurob1
War on babies 
|
| Back to top | |
asurob1
Arizona State Fan
Arizona
Member since May 2009
5664 posts
|
quote:
So, should there be criminal statutes for masturbation murder? wet dream manslaughter? What about women that don't have children? Should they have to pay a fine for every unfertilized egg that gets passed each month? That was a potential child!
yup.
Time to build more prisons. They are going to fill up quickly.
|
| Back to top | |
asurob1
Arizona State Fan
Arizona
Member since May 2009
5664 posts
|
quote:
you are being to much like kant you are taking your own concepts and putting into the sense data, our arguments, and thinking that is actually the truth. (sorry I just wrote a paper on Kant it is on my mind)
but no sane pro-lifer would ever make this argument.
even basic science denies this,if we say this then we we are truly idiots.
and yet.
It is what you believe.
|
| Back to top | |
asurob1
Arizona State Fan
Arizona
Member since May 2009
5664 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 2:12 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
War on babies
war on knuckle children.
|
| Back to top | |
mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2147 posts
| re: Is Abortion Murder? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 2:18 pm to ShoeBang)
quote:
I chose to leave the fact that I think contraception is wrong out of the argument to stay true to the topic.
And because people stop listening to you when you mention that little tidbit, huh?
|
| Back to top | |
