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CocoLoco 
New Orleans Saints Fan
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:12 am to TigerRanter)
Uhhhhhh
What the?!
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25644 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:14 am to CocoLoco)
quote:
Mike Triplett ?@TripTP
@PatrickORly @bobdarto I admire the efforts of whoever did this, but even if they filled in some of the blanks with Cerullo after the fact..
View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
Mike Triplett ?@TripTP
@PatrickORly @bobdarto ...I think that ledger still "is what it is." A flimsy piece but one of the many "puzzle pieces" the NFL relied on.
Mike Triplett ?@TripTP
@PatrickORly @bobdarto I think the league relied even more on eyewitness testimony than that ledger itself. So even if you throw it out ...
Mike Triplett ?@TripTP
@PatrickORly @bobdarto ... The NFL's case wouldnt change. Doesnt mean I agree with their conclusions/punishments, though. Not at all.
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Eighteen 
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:18 am to Patrick O Rly)
that makes sense, but Berringer probably wont like the fact that they are using suspicious documents at all
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kclsufan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
10046 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:19 am to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
Mike Triplett ?@TripTP
@PatrickORly @bobdarto I think the league relied even more on eyewitness testimony than that ledger itself. So even if you throw it out ...
The league is the one who put out this document, not the Saints, and they obviously did it for PR reasons. If they're going to do that, then the document AND their motives are fair game and they deserve every bit of criticism they get.
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thedice20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since May 1926
Member since Aug 2008
6490 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:19 am to Patrick O Rly)
U COT DAMN CELEBRITY YOU!
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25644 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:20 am to Eighteen)
Exactly. This helps Vilma's suit.
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Eighteen
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:21 am to Patrick O Rly)
holy shit, another great point from the SR thread
quote:
does anybody have a picture of the transcribed ledger that was typed up? I remember seeing a few spots on the transcibed version that said "illegible" but now all of a sudden everything is legible. Anybody?
for example: at the bottom of the ledger it says "get with Gregg + Joe see if i have all amounts"
but in the typed up version it says "get with Gregg + Joe see (illegible) all amounts."
Why was it illegible at first but now it is legible?
if the final copy is what the league is calling the "document", there is nothing really illegible in
so many fricking inconsistencies
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Eighteen
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:22 am to Eighteen)
also it is hilarious that it says "QB" before both Grant and Ornstein...but for Vilma "QB" is after the amount, and magically appears out of the squiggle lines 
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thedice20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since May 1926
Member since Aug 2008
6490 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:23 am to Eighteen)
all this shite is dirty dirty dirty.
If this was real world shit, this evidence would be thrown out. If this was real world, Goodell would get his arse publicly humiliated.
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ThePurpleHornet
LSU Fan
NOLA
Member since Mar 2011
729 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:46 am to TigerRanter)
Interesting note about how Illustrator works.
quote:
I just want to go on record as thinking this is going to blow up making us all look like silly conspiracy theorists because we're having a gigantic over-reaction due to not understanding how technology works. Opening a PDF in illustrator artificially creates layers as Illustrator tries to render the PDF as an image. This thread is going to seriously hurt our credibility as a fan base, used as proof by other fan bases that we will literally grasp on to anything. /debbiedowner
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Vortex331
Member since Sep 2012
10 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:55 am to ThePurpleHornet)
That's a conspiracy theory on conspiracy theorists... LOL
If the PDF is flat, and it is indeed a scanned image, there should be only ONE layer. If there are manipulations and the layers aren't flattened out before exporting to PDF, or the ability to edit the layers isn't turned off when exported, the layers will remain visible when it's opened in Illustrator.
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Putty
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2003
20068 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:57 am to Eighteen)
quote:
This letter was supposedly written Cerullo, who Gregg Williams said "handled all this stuff"...but look at the "G"
holy shit
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kclsufan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
10046 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:58 am to ThePurpleHornet)
quote:
Interesting note about how Illustrator works.
quote:
I just want to go on record as thinking this is going to blow up making us all look like silly conspiracy theorists because we're having a gigantic over-reaction due to not understanding how technology works. Opening a PDF in illustrator artificially creates layers as Illustrator tries to render the PDF as an image. This thread is going to seriously hurt our credibility as a fan base, used as proof by other fan bases that we will literally grasp on to anything. /debbiedowner
This doesn't explain some of the handwriting issues. Also, others on SR are claiming in no uncertain terms that the document was doctored since the added-in portions have much cleaner edges when blown-up than the handwritten portions. However, I'll defer to someone who knows more about this than me.
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Eighteen
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
15494 posts
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:58 am to ThePurpleHornet)
that was already addressed in the other thread
that still doesn't account for the actual changes that were made (i.e. "QB" next to Vilmas name and the cleaning up of the heading of the document)
yes a PDF will create layers, but it wouldn't change the actual text like this does
the document is definitely altered/tampered with, 100% no doubt and was confirmed by multiple people
like I said before, its just about if the NFL do it to make it clearer due to a bad scan or did they alter it to make it fit their narrative...but either way we are not looking at an original
the only way to know is to see the original, unaltered document in court
just scanning an image wouldn't account for stuff like this, it is digitally enhanced or altered
This post was edited on 10/10 at 11:23 am
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Hazelnut 
LA-Lafayette Fan
The Flatts
Member since May 2011
9648 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:05 am to TigerRanter)
I'm not able to watch the video or anything at the moment. Can someone explain to me what's going on? How did the NFL mess with the document exactly? did they add stuff to it?
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saintsfan92612
New Orleans Saints Fan
a pretty good city
Member since Oct 2008
16596 posts
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:06 am to Eighteen)
I really hope a handwriting expert can pin this note as written by Gregg Williams. That would destroy the entire case.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Feb 2005
64895 posts
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:06 am to Eighteen)
 >
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Eighteen
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
15494 posts
Online
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:07 am to Hazelnut)
just look at the two pictures I posted
one is the original, raw layer and the other is the final layer . there are extreme differences and words, letters and numbers were filled in. when you zoom in on the big .pdf found on SR (can't link it) you can see the changes in texture, pen strokes and pixelation
basically the NFL had the document digitally altered...the question is if they did it for clarity or if they did it to fit their story line
ETA: we meed Slo or another attourney to weigh in on the use of digital documents in court...people on SR are saying it is not admissible. also how tampering with a document would be held/punished if used
This post was edited on 10/10 at 11:09 am
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64895 posts
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| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:08 am to Eighteen)
The NFL should have been in charge of the prosecution case against OJ Simpson.
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Eighteen
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2006
15494 posts
Online
| re: SaintsReport post on modified hand-written documents (Posted on 10/10/12 at 11:18 am to Chad504boy)
heres a link to the .pdf
LINK
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