Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare-- - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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Catman88
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2004
39348 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

It's probably something personal


Its definitly this..


Notice he all out avoided my questions on page one of this thread. Dude has an axe to grind for some reason.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5306 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

the tax credit is why the film industry is here in the first place. without it there wouldn't be a film industry...the jobs it brings...and the money it generates. its not that hard to understand.

i'm still not understanding exactly why you're so against this tax credit


Why are you for the government giving any business 30% or 35% of their expenses with no limit?

Are you for giving people 30% of their mortgage payment? 30% of their food bill? 30% of their pay? 30% of their gasoline bill?

How much of my pay should you pay?

You people do not understand how significantly different these incentive are from the traditional self generating incentives the State has.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80167 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

Russian you can be my grammar editor.


Okay. To start with, there should be a comma after "Russian" in that sentence. "Russian, you can be....."

quote:

I have explain this
"Explain" should be "explained." The past tense of the verb "explain" is the proper word in this case.

Now on to your lack of understanding on concepts:

quote:

no income tax is generated in Louisiana
The actress would liable for income tax on her salary earned while in Louisiana, along with all the salaries earned by support staff, suppliers, etc.

quote:

The LLC then sells the tax credit because it is transferrable to whoever they wish at the highest price. The State itself will buy it 85 cents on the dollar.
This aspect of the law creates a higher demand for firms to film in Louisiana. Without it, fewer films would be shot in Louisiana. Whether it is an optimal process, I don't know.

I've read that some legislators are considering tweaking the credits including the amount of credits that a company can transfer.

If that happens, you will get your wish, along with a reduction in the number of films shot in Louisiana.

quote:

If they are so good--you have never addressed this question--then why not do them for everybody?


I did address it in your previous thread, but you are too ignorant to remember it.

Tax incentives ARE available to large NEW employers.

Film companies bring in NEW money and help bring in a nearly pollution-free, labor intensive, high skills, high-tech industry to the state.

That is a desirable objective in case you don't know it.






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oauron
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Sep 2011
8724 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

What is your agenda?


To rag Jindal. I remembered him after reading this thread. He posted on a now mostly defunct forum called LaPolitics (or something). Nearly every post was someway tied to Jindal sucks.






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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Kenai, Alaska
Member since Nov 2009
15525 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

I don't know what you are trying to prove or disprove
That Freeman is wasting his time arguing with someone like Russian who doesn't care whether or not it saves us money.
quote:

but i think the facts may be working against you.
No, they're on my side. Read his post history.
quote:

Louisiana is operating with a surplus.
I know. Isn't is great? I don't know what you are trying to prove or disprove, but i think the facts may be working against you.






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Choctaw
Navy Fan
Pumpin' Sunshine
Member since Jul 2007
49627 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

Are you for giving people 30% of their mortgage payment? 30% of their food bill? 30% of their pay? 30% of their gasoline bill?


none of these examples generate jobs, taxes, and/or revenue






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80167 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

The idea that you can have a personal tax rate of 6% and give away 35% of wages to such a large portion of the State population is absurd.


Again, you are ignoring the commonly accepted economic principle of multiplier effect, or 'turnover of money' if you prefer, along with the collection of other taxes collected on top of income taxes.

To paraphrase a line in the movie "City Slickers," you just don't get it. You'll never get it. A cow would get if before you do.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5306 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

To rag Jindal. I remembered him after reading this thread. He posted on a now mostly defunct forum called LaPolitics (or something). Nearly every post was someway tied to Jindal sucks.



I will rag Jindal on his big spending--ie the chicken plant, big charity ect. I have been very much a proponent of Jindal on school choice and his recent efforts to actually reduce state spending and I agree with Cato on his B grade which is very good.

These film tax credits are pre Jindal but he has not had the political will to end them or at least make them non transferrable.

There is no way they are paying their way. None. Other states that offer them are rolling them back while some states are just now starting them. It is a ridiculous bidding war we should refrain from. The industry is not a big employer in the scheme of things. The number of permanent jobs it creates is very small relative to the money in tax credits they are getting.

Here is link to the Tax Foundation's article on the incentives. LINK

We need to lower corporate taxes for everybody and use the money we are spending on this program to that. That would create more growth in our economy and more jobs in our State than the film industry ever will.

It is ironic that some supporters of this corporate welfare call themselves conservatives.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80167 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


Choctaw, don't waste your time debating with Blue Boy. I've bitch-slapped him so many times he now stalks me with all kinds of wild statements and accusations in his attempts to save face.

He's an admitted heavy illegal drug user and I think the chemicals have rotted his brain. He has yet to make even a single well thought out statement on any TD.com board.






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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Kenai, Alaska
Member since Nov 2009
15525 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

I've bitch-slapped him so many times
link?






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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1887 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

if it helps bring the industry to Louisiana


Is this the same industry that has helped destroy California with its Liberal agenda? I say pass. Let's keep it to the dirty oil and gas industry and other similar industries.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5306 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

The idea that you can have a personal tax rate of 6% and give away 35% of wages to such a large portion of the State population is absurd.


Again, you are ignoring the commonly accepted economic principle of multiplier effect, or 'turnover of money' if you prefer, along with the collection of other taxes collected on top of income taxes.

To paraphrase a line in the movie "City Slickers," you just don't get it. You'll never get it. A cow would get if before you do.




You don't get it.

I gave you an extraordinary example--one million jobs at $50K that are getting a 35% subsidy and you cannot see that is not self sustaining.

You want to apply some magical multiplier effect as if subsidizing this labor has no negative impact on existing employers. You seem to think--assume--that there will be 1 million new people to take these jobs. No an industry that gets a 35% subsidy will take employees from other industries who will not be able to match those wages because they do not get the subsidy. No multiplier can be applied here.

So again tell me just how much cash money the state will need to pay these credits?









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ProjectP2294
Miami (OH) Fan
St Louis County
Member since May 2007
31121 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

Is this the same industry that has helped destroy California with its Liberal agenda?

Please elaborate on how this happened.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

It is ironic that some supporters of this corporate welfare call themselves conservatives.


I love having the film industry in our state. The multiplier effect as Russian states is the real reason we give tax incentives. Why do states like Georgia and Alabama give incredible tax incentives to automobile manufacturing plants such a Hyundai, Toyota & KIA?






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
80167 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

some magical multiplier effect


'nuff said, right there....

Once again, your ignorance is on display.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


LINK

quote:

Louisiana’s growing industry has contributed to the continued success of new film production in the United States by leveraging assets that are economically and culturally advantageous to the industry, specifically during times of economic uncertainty. In addition to the generous tax credit, Louisiana has been able to attract and retain consistent film production into the state with the growth of skilled workforce, new infrastructure, and versatility and diversity of locations – all assets that are essential for the profitability of films.

“What we’re seeing is an entire industry that is on the move,” said William French, president of entertainment finance company Film Production Capital in New Orleans. Further explaining that the lower cost of living outside of the Hollywood area has been an important factor in a struggling economy, he adds, “ the decentralization is fueled by massive technological improvements which allow for films to be shot, edited, scored, polished and finished on location.”

Besides bringing in over a billion dollars in annual revenue into the state with motion picture production, the film industry has sparked the economy in several areas by creating thousands of new jobs, new businesses, and inspiring the growth of new industries that are both directly and indirectly associated with film. The ripple effect created has been positive on the state’s growth and continued economic development. As a result, Louisiana is also now a hub for digital media and technology, and has attracted other permanent, entertainment-industry projects, such as Pixomondo, EA Sports, Pixel Magic and Gameloft.

“The film production tax credit program was designed to cultivate and sustain a thriving film production industry in Louisiana – and it’s been very successful,” said Stephen Moret, secretary of Louisiana Economic Development. “Louisiana is now No. 3 in the country in film production activity, and the industry supports thousands of jobs in Louisiana that previously did not exist. In fact, third-party economists have estimated the economic impact of film tax credits in Louisiana to be nearly six times the fiscal cost of the tax credits”

However, a report that was released this week begs to differ with the impact the film industry has made on Louisiana’s economy, citing that the tax credits have harmed the state more than it has helped. The Louisiana Budget Project, an initiative of the Louisiana Association of Nonprofit Organizations (LANO) that claims to monitor and report how state government spending affects low to moderate-income residents, created the analysis, and brings attention and scrutiny to a highly successful tax credit program.

The LBP report states that the department of economic development has issued $231 million in tax credits over the course of the year, and claims that the state is only receiving a fraction of that investment in return in tax revenue. Citing data that was released in BaxStarr’s 2011 Economic Impact Analysis, the LBP report notes that every $1 of new tax revenues brought in has cost the state $7.30. What the analysis fails to report are the numbers that reflect the annual total economic impact on Louisiana’s economy – data that can also be found on BaxStarr’s Economic Impact Analysis. In 2010, the total economic output surpassed $1.1 billion, which is about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state. Also not taken into account is the amount of new tax payers the industry has created through businesses, jobs, property owners, and industries that would not even exist in Louisiana had it not been for the implementation of the tax credit program.

The economic impact from the tax credit program extends beyond helping the institutions they directly benefit to the companies in Louisiana that now exist solely because of the presence of the film industry. These institutions include catering, transportation, and financial services that are also creating thousands of new jobs, and in turn, new taxpayers within Louisiana.

Andre Champagne, who owns three companies including Hollywood Trucks and Scene Magazine, does not benefit from the motion picture tax credit, however employs 50 full time employees and has created over 300 indirect jobs with one of his companies alone. That impact is only one example of the many benefits of the film industry, and is not reflected on either report.

“Because of the industry, people are consistently moving to the state,” adds Champagne. “They are buying cars, putting their children in schools, paying rent and buying homes. And, this is happening everyday.”

The LBP claims that the industry is only creating temporary jobs, alluding to the transient jobs that are expected in the film industry. However, the consistency of incoming film productions have kept those professionals busy and working year around.

Tim Mathis, the author of the LBP report adds that he is not trying to pull the plug on the industry, rather proposes that the credit be capped or limited so that funds from the state can be allocated to other resources instead. While failing to include an actual solution with sound facts, he fails to acknowledge the repercussions that would come with executing such proposals.

“The larger studios are going to go where the benefit is the largest,” said Rob Wollfarth, a New Orleans attorney who has worked intimately with the implementation of the tax credit, as well as with several studios that have benefitted from it.

“Capping the tax credit or adding terms to the program would significantly slow down the development of the economy.”

Wollfarth further explains that the tax credit program has also inspired a homegrown industry, and ensured the industry’s long-term sustainability.

The report continues to insist that if the film industry were in fact sustainable, it would be able to exist without the help of the tax credit, and further declares that the funds would be better allocated to other subsidies in the state.

“Without the tax credits, the movie industry would not be nearly as active in Louisiana,” said Professor James Richardson from Louisiana State University’s economics department. “Will there be long-term development to the point that the tax credit will not be necessary? This is a few decades away.”

When it comes down to it, the release of the report brought on a scary concern for Louisiana taxpayers, and became quite the hot commodity this week both nationally and locally. Still, it fails to include very specific and proven economic impact benefits that the state has received as a result, and raises suspicion as to why this report was only just now released with two year old data.

Like any other investment, the benefits from the tax credit took years to make a significant impact on the state’s economy since it was implemented ten years ago. However, the creation of the new film industry has been a successful economic development initiative for the state, and has been proved with quantitative evidence. As of now, there seems to be no reason to change an initiative that has only positively impacted both the state and the country.

“We are open to changes that would strengthen the program and its economic impact,” adds Moret. “ We oppose the changes proposed by LBP because collectively they would result in the loss of thousands of jobs as well as an increase in taxes.”








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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5306 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

quote:
It is ironic that some supporters of this corporate welfare call themselves conservatives.


I love having the film industry in our state. The multiplier effect as Russian states is the real reason we give tax incentives. Why do states like Georgia and Alabama give incredible tax incentives to automobile manufacturing plants such a Hyundai, Toyota & KIA?


Herein lies the confusion.

The incentives those car plants are getting are nothing like the film tax credits. (I don't particularly like the car plant incentives either but they are no where---not even close--to the film tax credits in terms of taxpayer abuse.)

Car plants will get some direct payments--usually money for land or infrastructure improvements--but these are done in conjunction with actually capital outlay on the part of the car company. Long term investment in the form of buildings, roads ect.

Car plants will also get tax relief incentives---NOT transferrable credits. Such relief incentive are like property tax forgiveness or payroll tax credits on payroll taxes they create. These are taxes that would be on the company if these invested here but other wise would not exist. This is relief of taxes the business itself will create.

The film tax credits are far, far more lucrative and costly. They reimburse the companies for their daily expenses and they are not financed by taxes the business creates. They are off the stop of State revenue collections. This is money you and I create.






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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1887 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

Please elaborate on how this happened.


I think much of what happens in California is due to the Hollywood liberal culture. I am open to change my mind if you can present a case to say otherwise. I am finding it funny that since California is failing Hollywood is moving to other states like Louisiana.

Every progressive I meet in Louisiana thinks they are Hollywood actors or actresses. They post pictures on Facebook like all they do is attend "events". Always using Instagram to create some image of them as artist or models. I am not sure what any of them even actual contribute to society outside of trying to get the government to take our money for some great cause.




This post was edited on 10/9 at 10:35 am


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5306 posts
 Online 

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

quote:
some magical multiplier effect


'nuff said, right there....

Once again, your ignorance is on display.


Russian you have a multiplier that does not consider negative consequences of subsidies.

Are you so simple in your thinking that you do not believe that there are negative consequences to subsidizing one industry over another?

Your logic fails on a lot of points.

Tell me about negative multipliers.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Cato calls Jindal's hand on film tax welfare--


quote:

Herein lies the confusion


Read the link above to the Forbes article

I have an Aunt that provides comprehensive healthcare inside those car facilities. She provides cheaper insurance, in house pharmacies, wellness centers etc. We were talking about about the multiplier effect and she says its unbelievable the supply chain benefits these states gain by having these plants. The real economic impact sometimes is not as tangible as skeptics will point too. It's there though.

ETA: The Film industry gradually moving to Louisiana is a process. Just the spinoff business we are seeing is amazing.



This post was edited on 10/9 at 10:47 am


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