Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan | Page 5 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

So less revenue than currently? That doesn't sound like shrinking the deficit to me.


You do realize raising the cap gain rate will result in higher tax revenues don't you? And you do realize the problems with that chart don't you? And you do realize what the chart would look like extended out to 2011 don't you?

I will explain if I really need too...

quote:

And if you DO think that raising cap gains tax will result in higher revenues, why will this be different from every other time it's been raised?


You are kidding, right? Of course it will. Duh.

Behavioral modification will include a huge spike right on the front end, a drop and leveling off the next year, but overall, higher tax revenues going forward, all else being equal. Most definitely and without a doubt.






Back to top
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Name one plan proposed and run on by any president during any modern campaign that was passed as the plan was proposed? Technical campaign plans have no meaning when what can be done is completely different in reality.


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A quality post in this thread. Of course. And I am not really worried who gets elected at all. Congress is the problem and Romney's plan is so patently stupid it has ZERO chance of EVER passing the way he presents it. I said that back on the first page...

It just annoys me that people who support Romney have almost no understanding of his plan in the context of the two questions I posed and bolded on the last page. I think if people had a better understanding, they would not support or defend Romney's tax plan AT ALL, but many would still vote for him for other reasons (which is fine).



This post was edited on 10/8 at 7:52 pm


Back to top
TROLA
LSU Fan
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
6451 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

A quality post in this thread. Of course. And I am not really worried who gets elected at all. Congress is the problem and Romney's plan is so patently stupid it has ZERO chance of EVER passing the way he presents it. I said that back on the first page...


Obama has had his time both with full majority and without. The man has proven that he will not deal with the opposition when he has full control and therefore was stonewalled when he lost full control. He is as guilty as any in terms of the tone and distrust in Washington, he deserves to lose based solely on that failure. I have no idea if Romney has the chops to bridge the differences but IMO deserves a chance.






Back to top
Born to be a Tiger
LSU Fan
Somewhere lost in Texas
Member since Jan 2008
2521 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

quote:
Born to be a Tiger

Just go away. You are really not worth the time.



Is it because I caught you in a lie or is it misinformation? Anyway you are not as smart as you think.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Obama has had his time both with full majority and without. The man has proven that he will not deal with the opposition when he has full control and therefore was stonewalled when he lost full control. He is as guilty as any in terms of the tone and distrust in Washington, he deserves to lose based solely on that failure. I have no idea if Romney has the chops to bridge the differences but IMO deserves a chance.


Can't disagree with any of this either. That is my one hope if Mitt gets elected, that he can work with Congress.

I'm really not scared of his tax plan. It really has no chance as it is equal parts stupid and ridiculous. It would garner about 10 votes in Congress with Dems and GOP combined in its current form.

I just wish people would not blindly support it and would learn something about it. It is as bad a politicians that just play politics and always vote party lines IMO.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
crimsonsaint
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2009
32215 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Did you read what I put on page 1? Saying it can work is fine I suppose.

That is if you are ok with paying more in taxes if you are a middle-class income earner who owns a home or has kids. And that is not a talking point. That is a REALITY IF Romney wants to maintain revenue neutrality like he says.


Yeah I read it and tax analysis is not my forte. You seem to be knowledgable on the subject. So tell me why a presidential candidate would propose a tax plan that anyone with a knowledge of tax analysis could easily debunk as bullshite? Wouldn't that be a surefire way to lose the election?

You said you worked at a Big 4 firm. Was it Arthur Anderson?






Back to top
Willie Stroker
LSU Fan
Houston...ish
Member since Sep 2008
4470 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

It just annoys me that people who support Romney have almost no understanding of his plan in the context of the two questions I posed and bolded on the last page. I think if people had a better understanding, they would not support or defend Romney's tax plan AT ALL, but many would still vote for him for other reasons (which is fine).





You've got to be one of the most arrogant douches to post on this forum in years. There's a long list of far more qualified economists who disagree with you. I could list over 600 of them, with the top 1% of them being Nobel laureates.


But your opinions do come across as rather cute observations TigernMiamiAU83. Good luck on other message boards though.






Back to top
JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8415 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan




quote:

Behavioral modification will include a huge spike right on the front end, a drop and leveling off the next year, but overall, higher tax revenues going forward, all else being equal








Back to top
  Replies (0)
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

So tell me why a presidential candidate would propose a tax plan that anyone with a knowledge of tax analysis could easily debunk as bullshite?


I think it was to get elected. And it is kinda hard to change course on something he campaigned on. However I personally believe he changed course in the debate when he said he would not lower taxes on the wealthy which is plan would most certainly do if he cut rates by 20%. There is zero doubt about that (assuming he keeps the Bush tax cuts which he said he would).

quote:

So tell me why a presidential candidate would propose a tax plan that anyone with a knowledge of tax analysis could easily debunk as bullshite?


You know, I do not think most people listen want to do the research to come to an independent conclusion. It is all spin now and taxes are complicated in the first place. People can spin it to where people will believe if they WANT to believe to begin with. On either side...

quote:

You said you worked at a Big 4 firm. Was it Arthur Anderson?


PWC/KPMG. Anderson died about the time I graduated or a year later maybe.







Back to top
  Replies (0)
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
39733 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

You do realize raising the cap gain rate will result in higher tax revenues don't you?


Are taxpayers subject to cap gains rational actors?







Back to top
JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8415 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Are taxpayers subject to cap gains rational actors?



Come on dude, everything happens in a vacuum. Don't you get it?






Back to top
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

You've got to be one of the most arrogant douches to post on this forum in years. There's a long list of far more qualified economists who disagree with you. I could list over 600 of them, with the top 1% of them being Nobel laureates.


And I am sure there will be hundreds more that disagree and take the other side as well.

Anyway, don't take my word for it. Take the word of the Brookings Institute unless it is not good enough for you. Or the CBO. Or others. I can link you to a post that went into detail with several links to independent sources if you think the Bush Tax Cuts were or are helpful as well...






Back to top
TigerTattle
LSU Fan
Out of Town
Member since Sep 2007
5058 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

What percentage of middle class families itemize vs take the standard deduction?

100% of homeowners in the U.S. Plus some more, but primarily every single homeowner


Bull. Many cases where the amount of interest paid on home loan is less than the standard deduction and there aren't enough other qualifying deductions to itemize. I'm one of them. I can't even remember the last time I itemized.






Back to top
llfshoals
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1401 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:


Come on dude, everything happens in a vacuum. Don't you get it?


That seems to be the assumption Moron in Miami, and every other liberal I've ever met makes, and is the reason they utterly fail.

He talks about the moron in chief's plan being better.....does he mean the fictitious plan that's in Owebama's head? Or the one he put out that not even a single Democrat would vote for.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:


Are taxpayers subject to cap gains rational actors?


Every heard the old axiom, "Don't let a tax decision change an economic decision".

It applies here IMO. Most will still sell assets and recognize cap gains if it is the correct economic/business decision. It may be delayed initially for some in some cases I suspect, but it will still happen in most.


And we are not talking from 20% to 80% either...






Back to top
RTR America
Alabama Fan
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
22818 posts
 Online 

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Take the word of the Brookings Institute unless it is not good enough for you. Or the CBO.


Both used assumptions not using the plan of repealing Obamacare or the expiration of the bush tax cuts.

Up to 660 economists

Take a look at this article for me since you have schooled me on numbers so far

Stimulating the economy under Romney's plan (Tax based)






Back to top
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

Bull. Many cases where the amount of interest paid on home loan is less than the standard deduction and there aren't enough other qualifying deductions to itemize. I'm one of them. I can't even remember the last time I itemized.


See my clarification post. And you are in the minority as well I suspect.

And furthermore, it does not change the basic conclusion that the middle class will see an increase in taxes if Romney's plan is to be revenue neutral.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8415 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


LINK
quote:

The Steiger amendment cut the top rate to 28% from nearly 40% in what was a watershed moment in U.S. tax policy and a preview of the Reagan era. Revenue from capital gains quickly jumped to $11.8 billion in 1979 from $9.1 billion the year before.


quote:

Congress cut the rate again in 1981 to 20% as part of the Reagan tax cuts, and the striking fact is that revenues didn't fall in 1982 despite the steep recession. By 1983 they were rising again, to $18.7 billion


quote:

The next policy break came in 1986, when Congress returned the capital-gains rate to 28% as part of tax reform. A funny thing happened: Revenues soared in 1986 to $52.9 billion as investors cashed in their gains before the tax increase hit in 1987. But then revenues plunged, despite the higher tax rate, to $33.7 billion. They rose slightly in 1988 but then stayed flat for nearly another decade.


quote:

Congress shouldn't be fooled by government forecasters who predict a revenue boom from a higher capital-gains rate. They have blown this call every time. After Bill Clinton signed the 1997 cut, revenues came in about one-third higher than the government had predicted from 1997-99. The same thing happened with the 2003 rate cut. The government's forecasts of tax collections were too low for 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. From 2005-2007 tax collections from capital gains were at least 40% higher than originally predicted.





This post was edited on 10/8 at 8:22 pm


Back to top
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

expiration of the bush tax cuts.


Well, Romney has said with zero uncertainty that there is no way he would consider siding with letting the Bush tax cuts expire, so seems fair.


That 660 thing is totally partisan and total crap because of it.

Ok. Thanks for the second link. I will read it. I am honestly interested in seeing something believable that makes some sort of sense of Romney's plan. I'll give my opinion on it after I can read and go through it.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35068 posts

re: Princeton Economist: Obama Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan


quote:

RTR America


By the way, I just noticed what you linked is from the Tax Foundation which is full on GOP and does not try to disguise that they are a total advocate of the GOP and the GOP only.

They are not an objective source.

However, there writings may make some legitimate point so I will read it analytically.






Back to top


Back to top