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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
9706 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan

quote:

The Bush tax cuts were a massive failure, particularly the 2004 cuts. They are part of the reason we are in as much trouble as we are currently.


Highest revenues in the history on the United States of America.



They were such a big failure that Obama said it would be foolish to not extend them.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

I'd have to imagine that it wouldn't be very to easy to close 5 trillion worth of deductions/loopholes.

you don't have to make it up in eliminating deductions, though

1. if the economy grows, tax receipts will grow with it. that's the goal of his plan

2. if government spending is cut (which is a fantasy, but i'm just saying), we won't need the same level of tax receipts


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wickowick
LSU Fan
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
27838 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

2. The Bush tax cuts were a massive failure, particularly the 2004 cuts. They are part of the reason we are in as much trouble as we are currently.


They brought in record tax revenue, how that money was spent by two presidents and 4 Congresses is why we are on the trouble we are currently...


JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
9706 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

I'd have to imagine that it wouldn't be very to easy to close 5 trillion worth of deductions/loopholes. Could be wrong, though.


As Slow said, Romney's plan relies much more heavily on increased economic growth. The deductions/loopholes talk is just something to feed the masses.

In terms of revenue generation, growing GDP >>>>>>>>>Raising rates/closing loopholes.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

In terms of revenue generation, growing GDP

since tax receipts are dependent on basically GDP and nothing else, yeah


Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

i have been meaning to ask you this: do you believe that we lost tax "revenue" under Bush2?


Just depends on your definition of "lost".

If you are asking did tax revenues decrese, no. They increased.

However, I think you are asking did we lose tax revenues that we would have had if not for the cuts, and my answer to that is most definitely and without question we did. A lot.


TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
32760 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
So if it is that cut and dry that lowering taxes increases GDP, why is Obama pushing to raise taxes?


JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
9706 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

since tax receipts are dependent on basically GDP and nothing else, yeah



Exactly.


This is why Obama's plan, and characterization of Romney's plan is inherently misleading.

It assumes that Obama's tax hikes won't slow down the economy, and Romney's tax cuts won't grow the economy. OF COURSE if GDP is constant tax hikes will generate more revenue and tax cuts will generate less. This is an extremely flawed, and intellectually dishonest assumption, though.


Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

They brought in record tax revenue,


They did nothing of the sort...


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

If you are asking did tax revenues decrese, no. They increased.

well yeah that's fact. we can't argue that

quote:

However, I think you are asking did we lose tax revenues that we would have had if not for the cuts, and my answer to that is most definitely and without question we did. A lot.

interesting

based on what factors/information?


wickowick
LSU Fan
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
27838 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

In terms of revenue generation, growing GDP >>>>>>>>>Raising rates/closing loopholes.


This has been discussed on here for months and still the left fails to understand that growing the pie is more important that taxing the current pie. That is why there needs to be a pro business mindset in Washington...


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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
9706 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

So if it is that cut and dry that lowering taxes increases GDP, why is Obama pushing to raise taxes?



Because he isn't that bright. See France for the last few decades. See France RIGHT NOW. The "rich" are fleeing amid huge tax hikes. Their national GDP growth WILL slow down over the next 5 years.


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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

It assumes that Obama's tax hikes won't slow down the economy, and Romney's tax cuts won't grow the economy. OF COURSE if GDP is constant tax hikes will generate more revenue and tax cuts will generate less. This is an extremely flawed, and intellectually dishonest assumption, though.


Yet it is not as flawed as thinking tax cuts will automatically grow GDP. Especially to the point where there is a net tax benefit.


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ottothewise
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2008
32094 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

I keep hearing about how this will cost $5 trillion, but Romney says it will be payed for by closing loopholes. Am I missing something here? Can someone please explain what each side's point is because both sides say the other one is lying?



1. Romney is saying he would eliminate ALL taxes on estates at death. And add 100,000 more troops. So the few things we know Romney would do, in detail, ADD to the deficit.

2. Romney admits that it would be up to Congress which loopholes to close, and refuses to name any POPULAR deductions as certain targets.
3 Romney is pretending that the economy would rev into action: 4% increase in GNP, just because he is president. He actually said that.


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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
9706 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

However, I think you are asking did we lose tax revenues that we would have had if not for the cuts, and my answer to that is most definitely and without question we did. A lot.



This is a fricking retarded assumption.

Are you of the opinion that our national GDP would have been exactly the same with the higher tax rates?


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

So if it is that cut and dry that lowering taxes increases GDP, why is Obama pushing to raise taxes?

progressives like government as an instrument of social policy, and they believe it is unfair that some people get rich

also, progressives like to think in single steps. the "Tax" argument goes like this: well we had $5T in tax receipts at 25%, so if we increase taxes to 30%, we will get $6T in tax receipts

the argument becomes this: if you take that extra trillion out of the economy, will the economy have the money circulating in order to get the GDP necessary to deliver $6T in receipts? they typically just assume nothing will change when it really does change


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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

interesting

based on what factors/information?


Did you see my long post on the subject last week? I can bump the thread if you want to have a discussion on it.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
sure
This post was edited on 10/8 at 9:33 am


Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
quote:

Are you of the opinion that our national GDP would have been exactly the same with the higher tax rates?


Not exactly the same, but not that different. Especially regarding round II of the Bush Tax Cuts which no one wanted and economist strongly oppossed.


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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39149 posts

re: Romney's Tax Plan
K. Lemme find it. And I will have to jump in and out of the discussion as I have a meeting in 30-45 minutes..
This post was edited on 10/8 at 9:35 am


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