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JohnnyKilroy 
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5128 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/7/12 at 11:54 pm to DA)
quote:
I named one, and you pooh pooh it away. If I linked you to an article explaining it, you'd pooh pooh that, too. If you think its important, do some research. Personally, I don't care if you do or not. I get in trouble when I try to link and otherwise argue a point. My new plan is to educate and let them decide on their own. Otherwise, I don't care if they change or not.
I didn't pooh pooh shite (get it?). I asked for a link. Gimme dat link.
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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
8556 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:06 am to DA)
quote:
I get in trouble when I try to link and otherwise argue a point. My new plan is to educate and let them decide on their own. Otherwise, I don't care if they change or not.
Justice Department vs Adelsohn for Macau Casino Bribery... He supposedly had to pull some strings greasing the local sleezeballs. Honestly, that's how business is done everywhere but this was a multibillion dollar deal. Plus, Obama's team has a hard on for him.
LINK
LINK
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:10 am to DA)
quote:
. 'The tax cuts were revenue neutral but that revenue would come from dramatic growth in the economy. Where this sudden demand comes from, I don't know.
i like how the progressive line now is "it's about demand"
DA, i can answer this question pretty easily: if you put 10% more money circulating in the market, doesn't that mean society will now have 10% more to spend on goods? won't a chunk of that 10% be used on goods, thus showing the demand?
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JohnnyKilroy
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5128 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:14 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
DA, i can answer this question pretty easily: if you put 10% more money circulating in the market, doesn't that mean society will now have 10% more to spend on goods? won't a chunk of that 10% be used on goods, thus showing the demand?
This.
There would have to be immediate and DRAMATIC government spending cuts for lower tax rates to have a negative effect on growth. We KNOW this won't happen no matter who is the president.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:21 am to JohnnyKilroy)
when you break it down, both sides want to fix the economy by putting more money in the market
progressives believe that government needs to be the entity guiding this money. fiscal conservatives believe individuals need to be the group guiding this money.
this whole "demand drives the economy and creates jobs" mantra is from a TED video where the speaker's thesis is that individuals don't create jobs: demand does
well in light of my first comment in this post, the question becomes this: who can efficiently manage the demand of our society: government or individuals?
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TheOcean 
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
 Online
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:38 am to DumpsterFire)
So Romney is basically saying that he will cut taxes across the board and make up for the revenue by closing loopholes. Yet, the loopholes cannot be closed without the discretion of congress. So he can't give us any significant details AND we have to rely on Congress to help his plan out?
frick that shit
This post was edited on 10/8 at 8:39 am
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TK421 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
5101 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:41 am to Interception)
quote:
The CBO says the Romney plan can’t add up under congressional budget-scoring rules that don’t let him assume that economic growth will generate higher tax revenue.
That likely has more to do with the scoring rules put in place. The CBO also said Obamacare would reduce the deficit.
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wickowick
LSU Fan
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
12745 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:45 am to TheOcean)
quote:
So he can't give us any significant details AND we have to rely on Congress to help his plan out?
Every President needs Congress and relies on them for legislation. Well everyone but one...
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
Online
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:48 am to wickowick)
Thanks for the eighth grade refresher 
The point is that his plan depends on a large # of what ifs that offer no specificity. Why can't he at least say which tax deductions/loopholes he would target?
This post was edited on 10/8 at 8:50 am
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:54 am to TheOcean)
quote:
So Romney is basically saying that he will cut taxes across the board and make up for the revenue by closing loopholes. Yet, the loopholes cannot be closed without the discretion of congress.
you can't pass a budget without congress
and the bigger part of his plan is to grow the economy. the "closing loopholes" stuff is just soundbites for your average joe/jane to comprehend. he said over and over that the real plan is to grow the economy
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 8:54 am to TheOcean)
quote:
The point is that his plan depends on a large # of what ifs that offer no specificity.
so does Obama's, if we're being fair
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
Online
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro)
I'm not comparing his plan to Obamas. Just looking at it at face value.
I still don't understand why he can't at least mention some of the bigger deductions/loopholes that will make up for the $5 trillion additional deficit.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:15 am to TheOcean)
the spin is that he'll have to work with congress and doesn't know which will be negotiated
in reality, imho, he's not listing them b/c each one he lists will result in an attack
for example, if he says they're going to eliminate the mortgage-interest deduction, people will flip out
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Cruiserhog 
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Apr 2008
2826 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:15 am to RTR America)
quote:
would work under different assumptions
and if you included those making 100k in Romney's plan which he doesn't
Romney's actual plan is to tell everyone "im going to lower rates", get elected on that, then when it comes down to reality he will flip/flop as always and allow Congress to take the fall for not closing 'his loopholes' that he hasnt specified.
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JohnnyKilroy
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5128 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:16 am to TheOcean)
quote:
The point is that his plan depends on a large # of what ifs that offer no specificity. Why can't he at least say which tax deductions/loopholes he would target?
I mean, if this is truly an issue for you, you would have to go against your convictions to vote for Obama or Romney.
Hope and Change is not specific.
Also, Obama's plan (per the debate) is to raise taxes on the rich (he forgot to add that he's also raising taxes on the middle class, but whatever) and closing loopholes. Additionally he wants to "invest" (spend) more money on green energy and teachers.
We currently spend more than any other industrialized country on education,. Both in pure dollars, and per student. Yet, somehow we are consistently dropping in the global rankings.
Obama's plan requires congress just as much as Romney's. Obama is just dumb enough to promise shite that he can't actually promise.
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JohnnyKilroy
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5128 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
in reality, imho, he's not listing them b/c each one he lists will result in an attack
Also, this.
It's in Romney's best interest to be vague. 1. because he can't predict the congressional makeup of the next term, and 2. Literally whatever he says will be attacked.
Can you think of a single deduction/loophole that he could say he'd eliminate and NOT be attacked for it?
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Tiger n Miami AU83 
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25105 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:19 am to TheOcean)
Two things:
1. Romney's plan would require the elimination of all deductions to make up for the loss in revenue. Pretty simple. You cuts rates by 20%. You lose aproximately $5T over the next 10 years or $500B/per due to the lower rate. ALL the deductions for individuals COMBINED should about get you to break even. Will this ever happen? Will congress go for eliminating all deductions for everyone? What happens if not? Tax cuts that are not paid for AGAIN? Faster growing debt/deficit maybe? That is the sole reason Romney will not give any specifics about what deductions he wants to get rid of because he has to get rid of pretty much all of them or cap itemized deductions at extremely low levels which is about the same as axing all the deductions.
2. The Bush tax cuts were a massive failure, particularly the 2004 cuts. They are part of the reason we are in as much trouble as we are currently.
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
Online
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:20 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
the spin
Definitely, which makes the entire plan even more unreliable to believe. Although I don't know jack shite about our tax code, I'd have to imagine that it wouldn't be very to easy to close 5 trillion worth of deductions/loopholes. Could be wrong, though.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Romney's Tax Plan (Posted on 10/8/12 at 9:20 am to JohnnyKilroy)
quote:
Can you think of a single deduction/loophole that he could say he'd eliminate and NOT be attacked for it?
the very nature of deductions implies a policy created to influence behavior of the populace
if people have followed that policy and have adjusted their lives to the deduction, taking it away will seem like an attack on behavior the government told them to engage in, previously
so yeah, there probably aren't many
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
|
quote:
1. Romney's plan would require the elimination of all deductions to make up for the loss in revenue. Pretty simple. You cuts rates by 20%. You lose aproximately $5T over the next 10 years or $500B/per due to the lower rate.
i have been meaning to ask you this: do you believe that we lost tax "revenue" under Bush2?
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