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Msgulfcoasttiger 
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
99 posts
| Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:31 pm)
I am NOT trying to open a new discussion about JJ and Lee. But I do think that Les' stubborn insistence upon playing JJ exclusively in the face of terrible offensive performances against Arkansas, Georgia and then Bama in the BCS championship game demonstrates that he simply has no clue that his offense (Yes, HIS offense) simply sucks. How anyone could think that our offensive performance IMPROVED with JJ at the helm simply cannot see the forest for the trees. His stubborn streak simply won't allow him to see the truth. That's why so many of us were frustrated last year when he replaced Lee, under whom the offense was doing quite well (for the most part, I recognize the Bama 1 performance was lacking, but it's not like JJ lit it up either), in favor of an offense that NEVER moved the ball. Seven 3 and outs in a row in a half tells the tale.
And that is exactly what he is CHOOSING to do with this year's offense. My guess is that the first drive was scripted, which explains why it was the most successful possession of the day. After that, they began ad libbing, meaning Les defaulted to his norm, and the performance worsened over the course of the day. The same judgment that gave us JJ over Lee in the face of objectively obvious evidence (I think even the positards conceded the issue after 1/9/2012) is giving us play calling that leads to zero offensive output. This is simply more of the same poor judgment and lack of insight.
I've seen something related on other threads. This offense is boring. Even if we win, it's not very fun to watch. I know I prefer to win, but I was frustrated when we won so ugly last year. The wins against Arky and Georgia were a function of special teams play and defensive scores, which simply masked a more obvious problem -- the same problem we now see in this year's offense. Les interpreted those wins as reinforcement that his scheme was working, rather than a wake up call to effect changes. Arky and Georgia showed exactly what Bama had to do to shut us down, and they did. I fear the Florida game will provide the same roadmap to everyone else on the schedule. And given that Les is blind or stubborn, or both, it's going to be a long, upsetting and frustrating season from here on out.
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ZTiger87
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8343 posts
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| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:34 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
quote:
How anyone could think that our offensive performance IMPROVED with JJ at the helm simply cannot see the forest for the trees.
Maybe one day you can accept that it did. Maybe one day you will realize that the O wasn't any better with Lee in.
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Adam Banks
LSU Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
3788 posts
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| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:36 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
quote:
he wins against Arky and Georgia were a function of special teams play and defensive scores, which simply masked a more obvious problem -- the same problem we now see in this year's offense. Les interpreted those wins as reinforcement that his scheme was working, rather than a wake up call to effect changes. Arky and Georgia showed exactly what Bama had to do to shut us down, and they did.
I hate when people lie. Our best offensive performance of the season was against #3 Arkansas at the end of the season.
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stephendomalley
LSU Fan
alexandria
Member since Dec 2005
1763 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:37 pm to ZTiger87)
quote:
Maybe one day you can accept that it did. Maybe one day you will realize that the O wasn't any better with Lee in.
what planet did you say you just flew in from?
the JJ offense was nonexistent.
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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
115646 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:39 pm to stephendomalley)
quote:
what planet did you say you just flew in from?
the JJ offense was nonexistent.
Right
It really only worked against Bama because they didn't put in enough prep for the option
Once JJ was entrenched as the starter, the offense was afwul
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HMTVBrian2 
Northwestern St. Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2011
1839 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:40 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
The deal is that he doesn't care if his offense is moving up and down the field scoring 50 points.
Like, it'd be nice if it did, but Miles' offensive philosophy is to play great defense, and use your offense to control tempo and field position so you can shorten the game and minimize mistakes that can change the game.
That's why we pound on people so much. To shorten the game and defeat teh will of the opposition. Even if it's a 8 play drive that ends up in a punt, that's a win because you changed field position and controlled the ball long enough to keep your D rested and in good field position.
When they can't, there's no chance of doing anything in that game.
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JawjaTigah
LSU Fan
South of Tampa
Member since Sep 2003
9704 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:42 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
quote:
And given that Les is blind or stubborn, or both, it's going to be a long, upsetting and frustrating season from here on out.
Bravo! You have captured the heart of what I have been saying and saying since 1/9 (and those three JJ games before that). *CLM has done some great things; LSU's record under his management his been stellar. His coaching, however, has not been stellar. He is a manager rather than a leader. Anybody who does not know the difference is not going to agree. But in more concrete terms, Steve Spurrier is not simply a manager, Steve Spurrier as a coach is an innovative leader - esp. when he was at UF. Urban Myer is not a manager; he is a leader. Mack Brown seems to be more a manager, and *CLM is more like him.
None of this is good for LSU and I'm pretty sure that unless something radically changes in less than one week, LSU could well be 5-5 going into the Ole Miss game, and maybe barely bowl eligible for Arkansas if we beat Ole Miss.
There is too much raw talent on this team for the kind of output we have been seeing. In a nutshell, I think the problem is that *CLM does not know how to develop that raw talent to the next level, esp. on the offensive side. And from what I can see, he does not seem to foster a coaching culture at LSU in which he is willing to allow the other coaches on staff to do that for him.
Not good for LSU.
This post was edited on 10/7 at 1:46 pm
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ChewyDante
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2007
7740 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:42 pm to Adam Banks)
quote:
I hate when people lie. Our best offensive performance of the season was against #3 Arkansas at the end of the season.
Yeah. The offense looked great in that first half, huh? 
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Adam Banks
LSU Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
3788 posts
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| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:45 pm to Powerman)
quote:
Once JJ was entrenched as the starter, the offense was afwul
Then the JL offense was putrid.
3 regular season starts for JJ 3 games of over 450 in total offense. in the previous 9 games (this includes games against Kentucky and Northwestern mind you) we had only been over 450 once and 400 twice (including the game we went for 450).
We sucked against UGA. We sucked against Bama. Both qbs got a shot against bama and they both sucked.
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Msgulfcoasttiger
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
99 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:56 pm to Adam Banks)
Maybe you should consider the fact that in the first eight games, we were normally so far ahead at the half that the second half play calling became very conservative, even more so than Miles' normal style. I certainly don't remember a time when we went 3 and out seven times in a row under Lee. Regardless, my point is that Les refused to make a change after JJ obviously stunk it up. If you think JJ was awesome against Arky, fine. He sucked SUCKED (!!) against Ga. Les' stubbornness is the point of this post, not who was better, Lee or JJ. Thankfully, the 1/9/2012 performance answered that question forever, and Les wasn't right. Even if you disagree with that, no one can honestly think that Les' decision to leave JJ in the entire game demonstrates good judgment.
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TigerEast
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2003
1084 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:57 pm to JawjaTigah)
quote:
There is too much raw talent on this team for the kind of output we have been seeing. In a nutshell, I think the problem is that *CLM does not know how to develop that raw talent to the next level, esp. on the offensive side. And from what I can see, he does not seem to foster a coaching culture at LSU in which he is willing to allow the other coaches on staff to do that for him.
This is the most frustrating thing about Les Miles. If this continues it will begin effecting recruiting if it hasn't already effected it.
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ZTiger87
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8343 posts
Online
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 1:59 pm to Powerman)
quote:
Once JJ was entrenched as the starter, the offense was afwul
After JJ became the starter we had our 3 best games on offense.
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Adam Banks
LSU Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
3788 posts
Online
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 2:01 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
quote:
Maybe you should consider the fact that in the first eight games, we were normally so far ahead at the half that the second half play calling became very conservative, even more so than Miles' normal style.
That 6-3 lead vs MSU and 14-0 lead vs UK were real safe and we definitely needed to shut Lee down.
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VesperiaLSU
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge Tigerland
Member since Sep 2010
308 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 2:12 pm to HMTVBrian2)
quote:
The deal is that he doesn't care if his offense is moving up and down the field scoring 50 points.
Like, it'd be nice if it did, but Miles' offensive philosophy is to play great defense, and use your offense to control tempo and field position so you can shorten the game and minimize mistakes that can change the game.
That's why we pound on people so much. To shorten the game and defeat teh will of the opposition. Even if it's a 8 play drive that ends up in a punt, that's a win because you changed field position and controlled the ball long enough to keep your D rested and in good field position.
When they can't, there's no chance of doing anything in that game.
Best Reply from a fan who really understands LSU football.  We simply couldn't run the ball yesterday, which was why Les's offensive philosophy couldn't be executed.
This post was edited on 10/7 at 2:14 pm
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HeadBusta4LSU
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
8893 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 2:14 pm to ZTiger87)
quote:
After JJ became the starter we had our 3 best games on offense.
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dgnx6
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
16304 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 2:27 pm to Msgulfcoasttiger)
So you still think a diff qb would have changed what happened? We have a diff qb now, same bull shite.
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seanerin
LSU Fan
New York
Member since Aug 2007
139 posts
Online
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 2:31 pm to HeadBusta4LSU)
Interesting point about the first series being scripted. My friends and I were really taken aback by that first series. The play calling seemed so...interesting (two passes to the tight ends if I recall) and it seemed Florida was unprepared for that drive. (As an aside, it does say something about the state of our offense when passes to the tight end are seen as examples of interesting play calling). Yet, our play calling quickly devolved in subsequent drives into what we have come to know so well (e.g. Rb slams into stacked lines, telegraphed plays based upon formation and personnel, etc.). We discussed the possibility that perhaps the first drive was in fact the only "thoughtful drive."
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Msgulfcoasttiger
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
99 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 5:37 pm to dgnx6)
I'm not saying a qb change would have made a difference. I'm saying the same stubborn refusal to TRY a different qb in the face of utter and total failure is reflective of the poor judgment we see today. Miles won't change his offense no matter how bad it stinks, just like he wouldn't replace JJ when we never crossed the 50 yard line on 1/9.
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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
Cenla
Member since Nov 2009
14160 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 5:42 pm to ZTiger87)
quote:
After JJ became the starter we had our 3 best games on offense.
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GangnamStyle
Member since Oct 2012
142 posts
| re: Lessons from Les' decision to play JJ exclusively after Bama 1 and on 1/9/2012 (Posted on 10/7/12 at 5:49 pm to Adam Banks)
Our best offensive performance of the season was against #3 Arkansas at the end of the season.
While parts of this are true and Arkansas was way over-ranked at #3, the offense struggled mightily in that game and only performed well after the special teams and defense made plays.
Also, JJ was good for one game a year usually.
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