Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best? - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

My condolences, hope you find a better one soon.

I see your point I guess


I appreciate it. Luckily I was given many months of warning, offered a really good relocation package or a really generous severance package. I chose the latter.






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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

So, what about people who are worth no more than minimun wage, but put in their 40 hours at that price? Adjust premiums? But then, that would be the State getting involved.

Really comes down to whether we feel an obligation to help the not so powerful folk, who don't do well in a Free Market scenario.




Multi-faceted answer.

1- The same way they gain access to food and shelter to survive and in many cases auto insurance. The big difference is, those things are more affordable thanks to a free market economy.

2- Those people are most likely not getting employee provided healthcare

3- By having a non-free-market system, the prices are held high and in the current setup, insurance is nearly unobtainable. That leaves them to rely on the public for their basic life need.

4- A free market system would create more affordable options for everyone, including the minimum wage earners.

5- There needs to be some skin in the game. Healthcare is not free, nor should it be free. It is an expensive commodity of limited supply. The mindset needs to be shifted from it being something that you should get for free, to something you need to be prepared for, the less helpless people we will generate as a society.

6- Free markets would provide cheaper catastrophic coverage plans (as well as all other plans) in addition to cheaper clinics for bumps, bruises and sniffles. That benefits everyone, especially the lower income folk.






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wolfhawk71
LA-Monroe Fan
Member since Feb 2007
1328 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


If health insurance is not provided in any form by government or employers I'd imagine ~50% would not purchase it and thus costs for everyone go up higher than what they are now. Unless you turn people away from emergency rooms and I don't see where that's going to be allowed. In my opinion, you'd have to make it like auto-insurance for this to be feasible. Everyone is required to have at least a bare-minimum, high-deductible plan.





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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

If health insurance is not provided in any form by government or employers I'd imagine ~50% would not purchase it and thus costs for everyone go up higher than what they are now. Unless you turn people away from emergency rooms and I don't see where that's going to be allowed. In my opinion, you'd have to make it like auto-insurance for this to be feasible. Everyone is required to have at least a bare-minimum, high-deductible plan.


The free market would work itself out. As it always does. You'd find providers who would not take free cases and providers who would. Emergencies are a bit different, but the flood of people using the "free" providers would cause such a backlog and poor service, that the pressure would be there to purchase better care if you can swing it.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
40979 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

The free market would work itself out. As it always does.


The "free market" has its problems when it comes to healthcare (if you believe all citizens should have access to it at a reasonable cost), but I do think we have a fricked up, artificially priced system right now.

As I've said several times on this board, when I was a kid health insurance wasn't an expected perk of employment. I was raised by a single mom from age nine up, and the only health insurance we had was for surgery and hospitalization. We paid out of pocket for our regular doctor visits and for prescription drugs. But both were affordable because our costs were not affected by bull shite insurance related administrative costs and other factors.






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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

The "free market" has its problems when it comes to healthcare (if you believe all citizens should have access to it at a reasonable cost), but I do think we have a fricked up, artificially priced system right now.

As I've said several times on this board, when I was a kid health insurance wasn't an expected perk of employment. I was raised by a single mom from age nine up, and the only health insurance we had was for surgery and hospitalization. We paid out of pocket for our regular doctor visits and for prescription drugs. But both were affordable because our costs were not affected by bull shite insurance related administrative costs and other factors


I agree to a very large degree. The costs are inflated because we are all blind to those real costs. We don't shop around for care based on price as we do everything else. (again food, clothes, shelter, transportation, insurance for everything but health all have above-board pricing)






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RTR America
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Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
21094 posts
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re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


Healthcare should also allow a cash business. I saw a doctor on Huckabee a few weeks ago talking about how much better it would be for business. That would truly allow the free market to work especially for specialty doctors. Just throwing in another option. I also think the benefits provided to certain occupations are killing this economy such as teachers not paying much for their own healthcare.


BTW the tax on medical supplies is bull shite......






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OldTigahFot
LSU Fan
Drinkin' with the rocket scientists
Member since Jan 2012
5552 posts
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re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

through govt


Why do people continue to cling to the myth that government "gives" you anything. The only money that government has is what it has extorted from the people in the name of taxation.







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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

Healthcare should also allow a cash business. I saw a doctor on Huckabee a few weeks ago talking about how much better it would be for business. That would truly allow the free market to work especially for specialty doctors. Just throwing in another option. I also think the benefits provided to certain occupations are killing this economy such as teachers not paying much for their own healthcare.


BTW the tax on medical supplies is bull shite......


I agree. I don't think it's another option though. It dovetails perfectly with a free market, privately owned policy solution.

Our current system is a perfect model for how to create artificially high prices on a product. With further government intrusion, it will only get worse. Couple that with a mentality that healthcare is a free commodity that people deserve, we are in a world of trouble my friends.






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pngtiger
LSU Fan
Georgia
Member since May 2004
1473 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

5- There needs to be some skin in the game. Healthcare is not free, nor should it be free. It is an expensive commodity of limited supply. The mindset needs to be shifted from it being something that you should get for free, to something you need to be prepared for, the less helpless people we will generate as a society.

6- Free markets would provide cheaper catastrophic coverage plans (as well as all other plans) in addition to cheaper clinics for bumps, bruises and sniffles. That benefits everyone, especially the lower income folk.


There are a lot of good points in this thread. I am a physician, and this is the plan I'm currently working on for my employees:
1. Offer a group healthcare (would be a small group since I will only be employing 2-3), but with a high deductible (will get to $5000 at some point). This will cover hospitalizations and major illness/surgery. All other things, like general office visits and test would be out of pocket.
2. For the out-of-pocket costs, set up a health savings account that they would put money into, and I, as the employer, would put $100-$120/month into it. Over time, this will build up to eventually get to the $5000 deductible. This money is coming from their paycheck, again, as an option. This incentivizes them to shop around and negotiate prices with the hospital/doctors/etc. Since they are spending their money, hopefully they'll question the doctor on ordering frivolous tests, which should cut down the cost for everyone.

On the flip side, I would gladly take 50-75% of my cost if the person is going to pay cash (depends on what it is on how much).






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38459 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


my big question in a true free market healthcare system what happens to the really sick people who can't afford to have life saving procedures done when their insurance isn't willing to cover all the costs.

I've always said healthcare must cover life saving treatment for all no exceptions. Would a true free market health care system garrentee the same thing or would they turn people away because they can't afford to have a bullet removed out of them and be left on life support until they recover? By the basic idea of supply and demand if no one things that person should live and noone cares about them don't you think it is possible for a healthcare system to not treat them?

personally I think a freer healthcare system (as far as free market goes) is a good thing, but a true no regulation healthcare system will cause there to be people who won't be treated because they can't afford to. If its life and death then they must be treated, no matter who they are or how much money they have.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38459 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

5- There needs to be some skin in the game. Healthcare is not free, nor should it be free. It is an expensive commodity of limited supply. The mindset needs to be shifted from it being something that you should get for free, to something you need to be prepared for, the less helpless people we will generate as a society.


I agree with this as long as in a prepaid system people who may have not prepaid enough for some type of coverage and that lack of coverage would mean they would die, that the lack of coverage wouldn't matter and they would be saved anyway.

or another way to put it people who can't afford health care should be allowed to get life saving treatment without exception.






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RTR America
USA Fan
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
21094 posts
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re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

my big question in a true free market healthcare system what happens to the really sick people who can't afford to have life saving procedures done when their insurance isn't willing to cover all the costs.


If you were to open it up more it would drive prices down and make it accessible for people. Allow insurance companies to operate in every single state so instead of choosing between 2 or 3, you are picking from about 12.

The emergency room will never turn away someone with a serious injury.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38459 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

The emergency room will never turn away someone with a serious injury.



how can you guarantee this in a true free market system?






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RTR America
USA Fan
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
21094 posts
 Online 

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

how can you guarantee this in a true free market system?


Because it is a fact. Just look at Canada if you need a serious surgery they head down here to get it done. They have extremely long lines and forces people to wait for an extremely long time just for a simple check up.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38459 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

Because it is a fact. Just look at Canada if you need a serious surgery they head down here to get it done. They have extremely long lines and forces people to wait for an extremely long time just for a simple check up.



I'm not calling for socialized medicine, I'm calling for a system that is mostly free but has restricions in it that make sure that everyone isn't turned away at an ER when they have a poll sticking out there side. Based on my knowledge off true free markets or libertarian philosophy I don't see how you would be able to stop the hospital owner who says we will only treat people who have health insurance even if they have life threatening conditions.

and what do you base your fact on. We don't have a true free market here, we have a market that has restrictions put in place. For example noone can be turned away at an ER. There are government health care providers, public hospitals and medicare, that would be gone in a true free market system.

again not arguing for a socialized medicine system, rather I'm arguing against an unregulated health care system.

I need to go to now but you need to convince me that a true free market healthcare system aka no restrictions would not turn away anyone from the ER, or not give someone a life saving treatment because they couldn't afford it.



This post was edited on 10/7 at 9:20 am


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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


I don't think anyone is advocating no regulations. A large percent of hospitals historically and still to this day are run by religious institutions. There will always be systems providing charity. It will be easier for those facilities to offer better care cheaper in a free system.

Again, it is no different than food or shelter. Both are required to survive, yet we allow the free market to run its course. The more skin we remove from the game, the more people we have riding the system. If you need care and cannot afford it, you go through a system providing charity care. If you need care and have means, but simply failed to purchase coverage. You get care and then work out an installment plan for potentially the rest of your life to pay it back. Skin in the game. Medical care is not free. It is provided by highly skilled, educated professionals using very expensive equipment.






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Eurocat
Northwestern Fan
Member since Apr 2004
5081 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


All of this sounds to me as way too complicated for the average person to understand.

And it requires way too much self-discipline and foresight, more than many Americans have.

For that reason I think it would end badly with many people not getting the health care they need or Gvt just ending up paying for it later (in the ER).

To me health care, like Social Security, is something you have to absolutely force people to do for their own self good.






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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


So you advocate removing nature's penalties and instead installing government penalties to make people behave? The more we remove people from the consequences of their actions, the more people we create who cannot function on their own. Free people reaping the rewards and consequences of their actions is natural and healthy and fixes 99% of society's ills.

Thinking government can solve people's issues by intervening with their fore-site and thoughtfulness is foolish and only leads to the problems we face now.






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RaginCajunz
LA-Lafayette Fan
Gonzales
Member since Mar 2009
1413 posts

re: Who agrees that a true free market healthcare system would be best?


quote:

All of this sounds to me as way too complicated for the average person to understand.


What is complicated about it? Buy, now more affordable insurance, or go to the shitty charity run medical facilities. Seems pretty simple. (Buy food and eat or starve)

quote:

And it requires way too much self-discipline and foresight, more than many Americans have

This is because we have completely removed people's self reliance and installed "we got you no matter what you do."

quote:

For that reason I think it would end badly with many people not getting the health care they need or Gvt just ending up paying for it later (in the ER)

The % of people who truly cannot fend for themselves is astronomically lower than we think it is. We've just created a country of people who think they can screw around and someone else will save them.

While I admit, transitioning is most likely messy, it is our only hope to get everyone affordable healthcare. It requires people grow up. Mommy's running out of money...time to fend for yourself.






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