Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education | TigerDroppings.com

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shutterspeed
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Da Sipp
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Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Research conducted and theory developed by educationally oriented cultural anthropologists may offer some insight into the differences in motivation between the Asian and Hispanic students . . .Ogbu (1983, 1991) classified minorities into voluntary and involuntary groups; voluntary minorities are those who immigrated to America willingly, usually to improve their opportunities and those of their children. Examples of voluntary minorities include Korean, Japanese, and Mexican immigrants. In contrast, involuntary minorities have unwillingly become part of American society. Having been enslaved, colonized, or conquered, involuntary minorities usually view being in America as a condition forced on them. Examples of involuntary minorities include African Americans, Native Americans, and early Mexican Americans who were conquered.


Ogbu (1983, 1991; Ogbu & Simons, 1998) proposed that voluntary and involuntary minorities develop and internalize cultural models of American society that enable group members to interpret their world and respond to it. Voluntary minorities perceive American society, its culture, and its schools in ways that align far more closely with a vision of self-determination than do the perceptions of involuntary minorities. Voluntary minorities, such as the Asian sample in our study, frame their situation in America as one that promotes self-realization through the pursuit of opportunity in a new land. The belief of voluntary minorities that hard work and education will enable them to achieve their vision of a self-determined future provides them with a significant degree of self-regulation and internal locus of control. Voluntary minorities tend to be optimistic that American institutions, like schools, will facilitate their pursuit of new lives of promise. Moreover, they believe that the new culture and language they are learning will augment their identity rather than subvert the culture and language of their heritage. The internalized "cultural model" of American society that voluntary minorities construct tends to place them at the center of their locus of control. The compatibility between their view of America and their self-determined futures provides a social situation in which intrinsic motivation, including the intrinsic motivation of their children, can grow and propel them toward their goals and aspirations.


Conversely, for involuntary minorities, the path to adopting America's culture and language is likely to be filled with far more conflict, ambivalence, and hesitation (Ogbu, 1991; Ogbu & Simons, 1998). Many features in their cultural model of America result in placing their locus of control outside themselves. Involuntary minorities, perhaps like the families of some of the Hispanics in our study, may frame their situation in America as one that is far less promising in social and economic terms. Hard work and education may not enable them to achieve their vision of a self-determined future. Involuntary minorities tend to be more pessimistic about American institutions and their ability to facilitate the realization of new lives. They may set their economic sights lower than voluntary minorities, see "job ceilings," and meet job expectations working in construction or department stores (Matute-Bianchi, 1991). For some immigrants, American institutions, like the immigration services, may inhibit their dreams. Moreover, the new culture and language they are expected to absorb may threaten their heritage and identity. Most, if not all, of those forces are outside themselves. Intrinsic motivation would be difficult to foster in institutions, like schools, that endanger the realization of current and future identities. Thus, in-school literacies, including the acquisition of English, may not always be perceived as funds of knowledge that will enable them, without conflict, to pursue their vision of a self-determined future.


Unraue, N. & Schlackman, J. (2006). Motivation and its relationship with reading achievement in an urban middle school. The Journal of Educational Research, 100, p. 81-101.



1. Do you buy the cultural-ecological explanation for minorities and educational performance?

2. If so, what do you think could be done to improve "involuntary immigrants'" perception and performance in regard to education?

The theory makes sense to me. I've taught many Hispanic and Asian students who were extremely motivated in their education. And I've taught many African-Americans who performed poorly moreso out of defiance/indifference to education than anything. (It goes without saying, I've taught Hispanic and African-American students that performed against the theory as well.)








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Lsupimp
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2003
30081 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


In a related note, I remember a decade ago reading in Keith Richburg's Out of America; A Black Man Confronts Africa, about how black African immigrants to the United States had a higher standard of living after only five years, as compared to native born black Americans.

Again, that's why the Culture of Victimization that The Left has carefully cultivated as a client base needs to be discredited morally and intellectually and assigned to the dustbin of history along with every other failed ideology.






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Zephyrius
LSU Fan
Covington, La.
Member since Dec 2004
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re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


I don't know... after what 4 or 5 generations i think your idea is more conditioned and learned than an actual effect of being a conquered group. This was not necessarily the case for the black population pre 1960's at least as far as it is today.

Why the black population appears to embrace "the great society" ideals as a percentage of population I can't seem to connect that dot with the article...

Is not the immigrant mexican population also embracing the same "great society" ideals more and more?






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FriscoKid
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Jan 2005
4611 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


starts at home, its the parents or lack there of. thats the main reason private schools usually do better because the parents are invested in their child's education.





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Bobby Moore
LSU Fan
Red Hill, Mississippi
Member since Jun 2005
17751 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Studies don't mean crap.

I taught enough blacks and some whites in Miss. to know the reason that didn't want to learn is that they knew the Govt would take care of them so why learn., This is my study and the truth....

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it....






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RogerTheShrubber
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Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
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re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Culture of Victimization


Extremely important in interpreting what is happening today, I believe. You see that in the native students as well.



This post was edited on 10/6 at 10:17 am


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Zach
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Member since May 2005
62899 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Keith Richburg's Out of America; A Black Man Confronts Africa,


I read that book. Excellent stuff.

As to the OP, the authors seem to be leaving IQ completely out of the mix.






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M. A. Ryland
LSU Fan
silver spring, MD
Member since Dec 2005
892 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


I think he is absolutely right to make the voluntary/involuntary distinction; but he misses the real point of it.

In voluntary immigration you get self selection of the most motivated. Only the "Achievers" and winners actually immigrate. The stick-in-the-mud somebody-else-will-take-care-of-me types usually don't bother to pick up and go somewhere else.

I believe that winner attitude is hereditary.







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RollTide4Ever
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
9172 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


End welfare.

Btw, these studies conveniently overlook white students who don't excel in academics either.



This post was edited on 10/6 at 10:24 am


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XKEnut
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
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re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Intellectual Quotient.





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Patrick_Bateman
USA Fan
Member since Jan 2012
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re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


For those interested in the subject matter of this thread, I would recommend Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel.





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Zephyrius
LSU Fan
Covington, La.
Member since Dec 2004
2916 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

As to the OP, the authors seem to be leaving IQ completely out of the mix.

What does IQ have to do with it... I think this line of thought is completely flawed as to the point of the OP.

Plenty of smart people who embrace being a victim...






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shutterspeed
Southern Miss Fan
Da Sipp
Member since May 2007
33758 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Studies don't mean crap.

I taught enough blacks and some whites in Miss. to know the reason that didn't want to learn is that they knew the Govt would take care of them so why learn., This is my study and the truth.... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it....


If you read the information, I think you'll find that the author agrees with you. He says that Blacks may experience a sense of external locus of control. This would align with people who feel they have no control over their success and have to depend on government to take care of them and make their decisions.

So I don't think that anyone here who has mentioned government assistance disagrees with the author's findings. The question is, how do you help shift a population's self-image of "involuntary immigrant" to a self-determined citizen?



This post was edited on 10/6 at 11:09 am


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shutterspeed
Southern Miss Fan
Da Sipp
Member since May 2007
33758 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Is not the immigrant mexican population also embracing the same "great society" ideals more and more?


I can only speak from anecdotal evidence. My experience has been that Hispanic students, as a group, seem to be more motivated regarding their education. I currently teach an English Language Learner (couldn't speak a word of English 3 years ago), who now outperforms some Black and White students in English class.



This post was edited on 10/6 at 11:09 am


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shutterspeed
Southern Miss Fan
Da Sipp
Member since May 2007
33758 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

I believe that winner attitude is hereditary.


Well, that definitely plays into the concept of "voluntary immigrant."

Is this hereditary or cultural, though?






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TigerDeBaiter
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2504 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


When is the last time an African was shipped over here involuntary? I don't know the answer, so any help would do.





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Lsupimp
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2003
30081 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

external locus of control


I think he nails it. It is the Culture of Victimization and a basic lack of belief in the role of the Individual. It is hopelessly at odds with The American Ideal. Victimization is not the Son of the American LIBERTY Revolution, it is the Son of The French EQUALITY Revolution. It's the essential characteristic of Leftism/Liberalism which is a belief that inequality of results is somehow not the responsibility of The Individual and requires State remedy. It leads to misery, hopelessless and even worse, rap music and EBT cards.






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Zephyrius
LSU Fan
Covington, La.
Member since Dec 2004
2916 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

I can only speak from anecdotal evidence. My experience has been that Hispanic students, as a group, seem to be more motivated regarding their education.

yeah... my anecdotal evidence is from contractor friends who say give me 2 Costa Ricans over 10 mexicans anyday...

In any case my perception is that if the voluntary immigration article is true why is Ca. being sucked dry with welfare programs by its immigrant population...






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shutterspeed
Southern Miss Fan
Da Sipp
Member since May 2007
33758 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

When is the last time an African was shipped over here involuntary?


The better question is, how much of the "involuntary immigrant" status remains pervasive culturally today?






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Jake88
George Mason Fan
Member since Apr 2005
7898 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Easier to migrate from mexico to the US? No paperwork, enter on foot? Thats opposed to having to file paperwork, hop on a plane and travel halfway around the world. That might select out the more motivated and capable of forethought.





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