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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
2340 posts
| Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:20 pm)
I have heard many talking heads state that Romney care is the same as Obama care.
Is it? And if so, am I faulting Obama and giving a pass to Romney? For me, I hate being that way. I hate seeing people do that.
Let's take this 1 thing at a time.
RC VS OC
1- Is the single biggest issue for me personally. TAXES.. RC did not raise taxes. OC does on everybody.
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lsu13lsu 
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:44 pm to darkhorse)
ObamaCare not wanted by the people. RomneyCare wanted by the people.
All you need to know was he did his job as governor.
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2159 posts
 Online
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:45 pm to darkhorse)
I don't really know enough of the details about either to know for sure, and I am sure that most posters here don't either. Frankly its not even a game changer for me as it seems to have done nothing to the insurance or health business.
But I have heard both Liberals and Conservatives describe them as being the same thing. The first time I have heard it was any different was from Romney himself on Wednesday night, and that was the first time I heard him say that.
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Tiger n Miami AU83 
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25179 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:50 pm to mmcgrath)
quote:
I don't really know enough of the details about either to know for sure, and I am sure that most posters here don't either.
This. Most on this board and most of the public that hates on it probably don't know a whole hell of a lot.
Hell, my parents hate it and think it is the worst thing ever but have no fricking clue why. 
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ottothewise
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2008
32094 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:51 pm to darkhorse)
Romney did not write the massachusetts bill.
Democrats were for it, and Romney went along for the ride.
He was against the mandate even then.
LINK
notice also that Romney's version taxed its citizens in the exact same way Obamacare does. no difference regarding taxes.
none.
quote:
As governor, Romney initially opposed including an individual mandate as part of health care reform. Under pressure from legislators, he ended up signing one into law. Since then, Gruber relayed, the policy has worked well. In the first year alone, 98 percent of tax filers "got it right." A total of 44,000 residents in a state of 6 million paid a penalty.
"I will say that the fines have gone down," current Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D) said Friday morning on MSNBC, "because more and more people, as the statistics you cited indicate, have taken up insurance."
quote:
A top Obama administration official, meanwhile, said that if Romney were to argue that Obamacare included a massive tax hike, the president was prepared to respond that, by logical extension, Romney raised taxes in Massachusetts.
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:56 pm to ottothewise)
quote:
ottothewise
None of that really matters. It was a state issue and the people of the state wanted it. I don't fault anyone in government giving people what they want. The majority of Americans are against Obamacare and have been from the beginning.
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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25179 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 5:57 pm to ottothewise)
quote:
Obamacare included a massive tax hike
It is about 3.8% on certain types of investment income only on people making over $250k a year. The rest of the taxes are penalty type taxes and pretty modest when compared to most IRS type penalties.
Not what I would call massive.
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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
2340 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 8:34 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83)
First of all, Otto, I will debunk your post soon enough. Why don't you deal with the differences as it is the topic.
So we all understand and agree that on point 1 that rc did not cause taxes to go up. OC did.
2- we will go with this since its been mentioned. The state wanted it. The nation did not want this version of health care bill. It's caused division.
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constant cough 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
28352 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/5/12 at 8:35 pm to darkhorse)
Romenycare doesn't affect me in Louisiana so Obamacare is worse. And I'm against both programs.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 1:49 am to darkhorse)
quote:
I have heard many talking heads state that Romney care is the same as Obama care.
Is it?
No. Not at all. The individual mandate is about the only thing the two have in common. And even that was implemented differently. Romney's plan wasn't a huge power grab, either.
HERE
Here www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/understanding_romneycare.html is a backgrounder that will explain a lot. It include the timeline and contemporary issues under which RomneyCare was passed.
quote:
Romneycare vs. ObamaCare
Another fallacy is that Romneycare is the model for Obamacare. For two laws that each address the problem of insuring the uninsured, these could not be more divergent.
The final bill passed in Massachusetts was 70 pages in length; the federal bill was 2,074 pages. In Massachusetts, every legislator and all the private advocates had read the bill prior to its passage. The federal bill largely was unread before its passage. The federal bill does not simply nationalize health care, but puts control over health care into the hands of bureaucrats who are neither elected or under the control of Congress.
This post was edited on 10/6 at 1:50 am
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Janky
LSU Fan
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
2511 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 4:04 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
The rest of the taxes are penalty type taxes and pretty modest when compared to most IRS type penalties
There plenty more taxes associated with OC. Taxes on medical equipment for one.
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fishfighter
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2008
11160 posts
Online
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 5:32 am to Janky)
I just wished Mitt would give out more info on this.
This still has me on the fence for my vote.  Health care is top for me at this time.
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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Somerset, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
6956 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 8:47 am to ottothewise)
quote:
notice also that Romney's version taxed its citizens in the exact same way Obamacare does. no difference regarding taxes.
Damn you are a huge troll. Here is what you posted, in a brand new thread, 9 minutes after you posted the above quote. LINK
quote:
Here's what really happened in Massachusetts:
87% of the members of the legislature were Democrats.
ROMNEY VETOED major parts of the bill, including the mandate.
The dems, holding more than 2/3rds, did not need to compromise with Romney or the few Republicans in the legislature. they voted against the veto and the whole bill passed, as the Dems wanted, over the many vetos of your would-be heroic compromiser, bull shite artist Romney.
ROMNEY NEVER "WORKED WITH" the dems on the health care bill.
He tried to stop the main elements and was crushed every time.
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6124 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 8:53 am to MFn GIMP)
damn otto, what's the matter with you? 
IRT the OP- IPAB, and the various instances of "secretary shall determine"
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Jake88 
George Mason Fan
Member since Apr 2005
5585 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 8:53 am to darkhorse)
Romney care? If I don't like it, I can vote with my feet and move to New Hampshire.
Obamacare? If I don't like it, I can't get away from it.
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2159 posts
Online
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 10:15 am to Taxing Authority)
quote:
The final bill passed in Massachusetts was 70 pages in length; the federal bill was 2,074 pages.
Doesn't really say too much. National bills may be more wordy than state bills. What is different?
quote:
In Massachusetts, every legislator and all the private advocates had read the bill prior to its passage.
If you believe that every legislator in Massachusetts read the bill then I have a bridge to sell you. Yes, the national Dems were an embarrassment. They prepped as weakly as Obama did for the debates. But the R's didn't read it either. They were using talking points that were spoon fed to them.
quote:
The federal bill does not simply nationalize health care ...
Really, does it? From what little I understand of the Act it will leave millions of Americans uncovered and private companies are still providing insurance. There is a sort of "national plan" that people can opt into, but that does not "nationalize" insurance.
The main thing wrong with the bill IMO is that it does not cover everyone. Yet we still provide some level of health care in the same unofficial wishy washy way that we do which seems to cost a ton for individual hospitals based on location and still provides inadequate care that clogs up emergency rooms in the most inneficient manner.
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Bobby Moore
LSU Fan
Red Hill, Mississippi
Member since Jun 2005
17751 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 10:18 am to darkhorse)
quote:
I have heard many talking heads state that Romney care is the same as Obama care.
Google is your friend.
No, they are not the same.
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mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
2159 posts
Online
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 10:47 am to Bobby Moore)
quote:
Google is your friend.
No, they are not the same.
Then go ahead and list a couple of differences. Honestly, I am curious myself. I believe the OP wanted a serious discussion on it.
People want to know if there are differences in:
* their ability to pick a private plan
* costs for the public option
* amount and type of coverage in the public option
* Amounts for co-pays on prescriptions in the public option
* Requirements on private plan coverages
* What are the deductibles
That is how people choose healthcare.
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CRNA-KA
LSU Fan
Tennessee
Member since Jan 2012
599 posts
| re: Romney care vs Obama care.. real discusion (Posted on 10/6/12 at 11:23 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
It is about 3.8% on certain types of investment income only on people making over $250k a year. The rest of the taxes are penalty type taxes and pretty modest when compared to most IRS type penalties.
Not what I would call massive.
Are you aware that the effectiveness of HSA's will go away under Obama care? Lets say I put away 5k per year at at savings of what my tax rate (20%) is x 5,000. That alone is 1,000 that I would save in tax deferred money.
How Obamacare will Make HSA's more costly
This post was edited on 10/6 at 11:28 am
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