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Tiger n Miami AU83 
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25601 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:20 am to theunknownknight)
quote:
Then...why did Obama extend the tax "cuts"?
I believe it was a concession to get some other parts of a bill passed. I remember he said now (in a recession) was not the right time to let them expire, but I am pretty sure that was just a concession to get something else he wanted at the time. I do not think he ever really wanted to extend them. They were bad policy in 2004 and are worse now. He knows that and says it all the time.
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Alabama Slim 
Alabama Fan
2009,2011 BCS National Champions
Member since Jul 2007
8807 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:21 am to tigeraddict)
it is a tax cut. sunset provision is there and to pretend it isn't is disingenuous, especially when it was republican legislation. to pretend it isn't is very hackish.
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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25601 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:21 am to Bard)
quote:
That's not the whole picture. Under the Romney plan the "rich" would still pay the same effective rate because various loopholes and deductions would be closed.
That is cute you think so. Makes me chuckle.
You may be one of the few that actually believe this. Want some links to analysis that say the wealthy will pay less under Romney's half arse "plan"?
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theunknownknight 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
22661 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:24 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
I believe it was a concession to get some other parts of a bill passed. I remember he said now (in a recession) was not the right time to let them expire
Then why does he want to end them NOW when signs are showing slower growth than when he made this statement?
Was he wrong then (I assume not as you quoted him), was he lying, or is he just patently stupid?
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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25601 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:25 am to theunknownknight)
quote:
Then why does he want to end them NOW when signs are showing slower growth than when he made this statement?
Was he wrong then (I assume not as you quoted him), was he lying, or is he just patently stupid?
As I said, he gave to get in a bill to which the extension got attached.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16875 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:26 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
Yes. Technically this is accurate.
No it isn't. If a rate changes from 36% to 39.5% is raised, lowered, or the same?
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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
22661 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:26 am to Alabama Slim)
quote:
it is a tax cut. sunset provision is there and to pretend it isn't is disingenuous, especially when it was republican legislation. to pretend it isn't is very hackish.
What's hackish is to think the government is more entitled to our income than we are.
Who should have the first say on what to do with your income? YOU or the GOVERNMENT?
If the former, then it's not a tax cut. If the latter, then it is.
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ThisWayChad
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
1384 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:27 am to Taxing Authority)
quote:
If your budget for next hear is 10% higher than the current year, but it's reduced to only 5% higher, it's demonized as a 5% cut, even though the actual amount you get is higher.
it kills me when politicians do this and get away with it.
eta: although i'm sure if the average income of middle class families had actually increased over the past 3+ years, but at a lower rate than inflation, Mr. President would bite the bullet and say that the average income has gone down.
This post was edited on 10/4 at 11:29 am
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16875 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:27 am to theunknownknight)
quote:
Then...why did Obama extend the tax "cuts"?
Not only that, but Obama proposes to KEEP the rates for the folks that got the greatest "temporary cuts".
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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
22661 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:27 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
As I said, he gave to get in a bill to which the extension got attached.
Which bill was that and why was it more important than virtually his ENTIRE platform for his next for years? 
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16875 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:29 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
I believe it was a concession to get some other parts of a bill passed.
Nope. It was lame duck session bill.
quote:
I remember he said now (in a recession) was not the right time to let them expire,
And as Romney pointed out last night, when Obama said that, the economy was actually better than it is today...
quote:
I do not think he ever really wanted to extend them. They were bad policy in 2004 and are worse now. He knows that and says it all the time.
Why didn't he veto the bill?
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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
22661 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:31 am to Taxing Authority)
quote:
Nope. It was lame duck session bill.
I don't expect a viable response from him. He's been called on his bull shite.
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Alabama Slim
Alabama Fan
2009,2011 BCS National Champions
Member since Jul 2007
8807 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:34 am to theunknownknight)
quote:
What's hackish is to think the government is more entitled to our income than we are.
what is the tax rate that was called for in 2013 in the original legislation when it was passed. that is really all that is germane to the conversation. The "government entitlement to my income" talk is nothing but hyperbole. I hope it gets extended... but your extending a TAX CUT.
This post was edited on 10/4 at 11:37 am
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ThisWayChad
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
1384 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:36 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
You may be one of the few that actually believe this. Want some links to analysis that say the wealthy will pay less under Romney's half arse "plan"?
I believe Mittens made a conscious effort last night to say that the wealthy will account for the same percentage of tax receipts as they do now under his plan.
When you say 'pay less,' are you talking about the effective rate or as a percentage of total tax receipts?
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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
22661 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:38 am to Alabama Slim)
quote:
what is the tax rate that was called for in the original legislation when it was passed. that is really all that is germane to the conversation. The "government entitlement to my income" talk is nothing but hyperbole. I hope it gets extended... but your extending a TAX CUT.
Which of the two men on stage were responsible for the federal language when passing the original "cuts" twelve years ago? Which one wrote the bill?
Which one EXTENDED the "cut"?
Is the tax rate going to go up or down under Obama next term?
Who is more entitled to your income? You or the government?
Please answer each question and maybe you may realize how blind you are.
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ThisWayChad
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
1384 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:41 am to Taxing Authority)
quote:
Why didn't he veto the bill?
It's entirely possible that he still believes it is a bad time to let the cuts expire.
However, he has chosen (perhaps due to a lack of options) to run on this class-warfare position, thus the pay your fair share statement does not match up well w/ extending tax cuts.
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Bard 
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
12899 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:45 am to Tiger n Miami AU83)
quote:
That is cute you think so. Makes me chuckle.
You may be one of the few that actually believe this. Want some links to analysis that say the wealthy will pay less under Romney's half arse "plan"?
You know what's even cuter? When you get your arse handed to you in a thread and you magically disappear from it. You haven't been posting here long and you've already got a reputation for being an "otto".
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Alabama Slim
Alabama Fan
2009,2011 BCS National Champions
Member since Jul 2007
8807 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:46 am to theunknownknight)
quote:
Which of the two men on stage were responsible for the federal language when passing the original "cuts" twelve years ago? Which one wrote the bill?
neither, it was passed as Republican legislation with a provision that it expire and rates move back up.
eta... Obama may have been in Washington when it passed. I don't know.
quote:
Which one EXTENDED the "cut"?
Obama... and why is cut in quotations?
quote:
Who is more entitled to your income? You or the government?
It would be nice to leave the hyperbole out of the conversation. You sound like Obama screaming about oil companies and private jets.
quote:
Please answer each question and maybe you may realize how blind you are.
like I said I hope it gets extended... but that doesn't mean that by even the most conservative definition, you aren't extending a TAX CUT. Now if it makes it into law that the current rate becomes permanent, then at that point it will cease to be a tax cut. As long as the sunset provision is there it's a cut.
This post was edited on 10/4 at 11:48 am
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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
12899 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:46 am to ThisWayChad)
quote:
I believe Mittens made a conscious effort last night to say that the wealthy will account for the same percentage of tax receipts as they do now under his plan.
When you say 'pay less,' are you talking about the effective rate or as a percentage of total tax receipts?
Don't even bother. When you bring facts into it and press him for facts to back up what he says, he just tosses about snide remarks then runs off.
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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
25601 posts
| re: "Tax cut" : Let's Define what it means (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:53 am to Taxing Authority)
quote:
quote:
I believe it was a concession to get some other parts of a bill passed.
Nope. It was lame duck session bill.
quote:
I remember he said now (in a recession) was not the right time to let them expire,
And as Romney pointed out last night, when Obama said that, the economy was actually better than it is today...
quote:
I do not think he ever really wanted to extend them. They were bad policy in 2004 and are worse now. He knows that and says it all the time.
Why didn't he veto the bill?
Assuming all that is true, he fricked up. Not his first frick up. He fricks up plenty.
However, one candidate wants to get rid of them now (at least in part) and one does not. The rest of the jibberish is not really relevant.
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