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Friend of OBUDan 
Florida Fan
Norman, OK
Member since Dec 2008
6177 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 7:26 pm to Jumbeauxlaya)
If Ricky Gervinho keeps this up, he's got to stay in the lineup. But Giroud needs minutes too. Hope he starts versus West Ham.
Glad Ramsey got a goal. He needs the confidence boost. Really classy finish. The likes of which we haven't seen since we sold the chip master himself, Vela.
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Jumbeauxlaya 
LSU Fan
Denham
Member since Jan 2011
15155 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 7:48 pm to Friend of OBUDan)
I read that 3 times before I realized you typed gervinho... I was confused as shite as to why you were taking about Ricky Gervais (sp? The comedian)
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:21 pm to cwil177)
I would definitely take the following before Kos:
Lescott
Kompany
Agger
Vidic
Verm
Terry
I might put any of the following before Kos:
Coloccini
Cahill
Luiz
Heitinga
Jagielka
Skrtel
Per
(I'm probably missing someone. On my phone)
This post was edited on 10/3 at 8:26 pm
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:25 pm to Friend of OBUDan)
quote:
Led the league in interceptions and tackles last year IIRC.
Means very little. Skrtel led the league in multiple categories, but he isn't a top CB.
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Dandy Lion 
Gonzaga Fan
Bruddalandia + Curry Mao Mao, buuuf
Member since Feb 2010
17782 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:27 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
quote:
Means very little. Skrtel led the league in multiple categories, but he isn't a top CB.
Beast, you'd should know by now, stats mean EVERYTHING on this board. 
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crazy4lsu 
USA Fan
Member since May 2005
10265 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:30 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
quote:
Lescott
Plays in a great team, but I think Kos is a better CB. Also Lescott can't play the ball out of the back, and isn't a good passer out of the back.
I mostly agree with the rest of your list, except you excluded Hummels, who is magnificent and Thiago Silva, who is the prototype for the type of CB that Kos should be.
quote:
Coloccini
Cahill
Luiz
Heitinga
Jagielka
Skrtel
Per
I think Kos is a better CB than Jagielka. I don't think he gets enough credit for how good he is on the ball. His biggest problem is that he's suited to technical strikers and struggles against more powerful players. Hence why many larger CB's are more dominant than he is, but his skill set is as good as any in the world.
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:33 pm to Dandy Lion)
quote:
Beast, you'd should know by now, stats mean EVERYTHING on this board.
To be fair, stats can assist an argument in a major way at times. The only problem is that the "most tackles, interceptions" statistics weigh so heavily on the tactics of the team. In a squad without a strong defensive midfielder, the CBs will benefit and make more tackles. Also, a team who is possession minded will also skew those defensive categories in someone else's favor.
So while they are good indicators of a players strengths, it's unfair to base an argument on them.
This post was edited on 10/3 at 8:36 pm
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:35 pm to crazy4lsu)
quote:
Plays in a great team, but I think Kos is a better CB. Also Lescott can't play the ball out of the back, and isn't a good passer out of the back.
Lescott is much better in the air, as well as better on the ground IMO. His tackle % from last year was pretty ridiculous.
quote:
I mostly agree with the rest of your list, except you excluded Hummels, who is magnificent and Thiago Silva, who is the prototype for the type of CB that Kos should be.
Well my list included only PL CBs.
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Friend of OBUDan
Florida Fan
Norman, OK
Member since Dec 2008
6177 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 8:47 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
I'm not saying it's the ends all, but when stats reinforce what I've watched for the past year plus, I pay attention. His stats are likely influenced by the fact he had to clean up for the less mobile Per and marauding TV5 whose risks leave us hanging frequently.
I agree with crazy, he still struggles with powerful strikers at times but has definitely improved in that area. I'd rate Kompany, Agger, and a healthy Vidic (though that's far gone) over him. He's in the same tier as those others you've mentioned. I'd say he's better but it's impossible to prove definitively.
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Jumbeauxlaya
LSU Fan
Denham
Member since Jan 2011
15155 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:09 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
Lescott might be a touch more sound defensively, but he's a little slower and a terribly slow passer, time stops when the ball comes to him and usually just ends up getting side or back passed.
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bluebarracuda
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
3745 posts
 Online
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:21 pm to Friend of OBUDan)
quote:
Glad Ramsey got a goal. He needs the confidence boost. Really classy finish. The likes of which we haven't seen since we sold the chip master himself, Vela.
That finish was so cheeky
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crazy4lsu
USA Fan
Member since May 2005
10265 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:16 am to LSUSOBEAST1)
quote:
Lescott is much better in the air, as well as better on the ground IMO. His tackle % from last year was pretty ridiculous.
Kos is pretty superb on the ground. Lescott generally plays in a deeper line, and is a last ditch defender. He'd struggle significantly in a high line as would lots of other very good CB's. Kos plays in a high line, and usually uses body position to prevent the striker from receiving the ball. He has speed rare for a CB. His reading of the game is pretty good as well.
I also don't think we should underrate how poor Lescott is on the ball. For a team that dominates possession as much as Man City do, that is fairly detrimental to their overall game.
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 11:58 am to crazy4lsu)
Fair enough. There is still a lot of things I don't particularly like about Kos though.
He seems undersized, weak and under matched at times. Also comes across as a disaster waiting to happen to me.
But he had a decent season last year and may be getting to that level many are suggesting. No way do I consider him a top 4 CB right now though.
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DB10_AFC
LSU Fan
Highbury
Member since Jun 2012
3423 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 12:08 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
Kos is our best CB. Vermaelen makes too many mistakes but now he is our Captain so he won't be dropped. Wenger should have just made Arteta Captain.
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The Mick
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
14897 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 12:11 pm to DB10_AFC)
I dont follow any club religiously really. I watch whatever games are on tv, except the shitty ones. Ive gotta tell you though, I enjoy watching this group for Arsenal. With all the departures things could have gotten really bad, but there is a new energy there it seems.
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Friend of OBUDan
Florida Fan
Norman, OK
Member since Dec 2008
6177 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 12:34 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
In a league where small, quick playmakers and strikers are becoming more common, I think his skill set is incredibly useful.
TV5 is the one I worry about when it comes to disasters.
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Jumbeauxlaya
LSU Fan
Denham
Member since Jan 2011
15155 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 12:43 pm to DB10_AFC)
Kos's mistakes have hurt just as much if not more this season..
If bould can reign in tv5's attacks just a smidge he's by far our best cb
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Friend of OBUDan
Florida Fan
Norman, OK
Member since Dec 2008
6177 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 1:21 pm to Jumbeauxlaya)
He's made one real mistake this season, the Torres goal.
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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
25722 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 1:28 pm to Friend of OBUDan)
The Mata free kick is on him too IMO. It looked like it was his role to clear a near post ball, and he really left Mannone out to dry by not taking that ball out of the danger zone.
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Friend of OBUDan
Florida Fan
Norman, OK
Member since Dec 2008
6177 posts
| re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread (Posted on 10/4/12 at 3:13 pm to LSUSOBEAST1)
I just don't see that. Thought there wasn't much more he could have done there with the manner in which that was whipped in.
Regardless, whether it's one or two is kind of pointless considering it's less than TV5 has made.
To be honest, I'm a little confused by your reasons for not rating him. Undersized height wise? He's 6'1 which is within an inch (more or less) of all those you mentioned outside of Per, Kompany, Agger, Skrtel and Heitinga. His build isn't bulky and he is a bit weaker than some of those. I also think some of those you mentioned have equal, if not more, capability for disaster. I think Kos still deals with the stigma from his first season, particularly the Birmingham miscue.
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