Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers) - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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jrodLSUke
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

The Others are a completely seperate species and when they kill something that thing then becomes a wight (basically a zombie).

Snow Zombies!

You know the book is gonna be good when it start off with Snow Zombies.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

Snow Zombies! You know the book is gonna be good when it start off with Snow Zombies.



No shit, here I was expecting Orcs and Elves and instead I got fricking Snow Zombies!!!!! IN THE FIRST GODDAMNED CHAPTER?

You're goddamned right I love this series.....






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auyushu
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

This is correct. Humans can never be Others. The Others are a completely seperate species and when they kill something that thing then becomes a wight (basically a zombie).


Not necessarily true. Craster's daughters implied that the male babies he gives up became Others, referring to them as their brothers. Whether that is true or not, who the hell knows.

But I'm not sure what use the Others would have for a toddler wight.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 7:23 pm


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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

Not necessarily true. Craster's daughters implied that the male babies he gives up became Others, referring to them as their brothers. Whether that is true or not, who the hell knows. But I'm not sure what use the Others would have for a toddler wight.



I guess that could be true. I've never caught that or thought of it. I just thought that Craster gave up his sons in order to be left alone. But that also raises the question of WHY the others would leave him alone because he gave up their sons. What do they get in return. Now I'm intrigued






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auyushu
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


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I guess that could be true. I've never caught that or thought of it.


Yeah, it's during the part when Gilly is trying to get Sam and Jon to take her with them I believe.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


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Yeah, it's during the part when Gilly is trying to get Sam and Jon to take her with them I believe.



I remember her saying that Craster gave his sons to The Others but I don't recall her saying that they BECAME Others (not saying you're wrong just saying that I don't remember). Although this is Gilly we are talking about her knowledge of the world is based off of the equivalent of Old Nan's tales....

Interesting none the less however.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 7:41 pm


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auyushu
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


I believe it's the older wife with them, not Gilly herself. She talks about how when Gilly's son is born, it will be given to the cold gods to become one of their cold brothers or some such. I'll have to look it up again.





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auyushu
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


Yeah, I reread it, it's from ASOS, Jon's not there. It's the very last part of the chapter where Mormont is killed as well as Craster.

Gilly asks Sam to take her and the baby, or else "They" will.

Sam asks who They is, and one of the older wives responds:

"The Boy's brothers," "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. Those poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

I think it goes without saying that Toddler wights aren't really going to be that fearsome, so she's most likely referring to Others, particularly since it was the others themselves that always took Craster's sons.






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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


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Yeah, I reread it, it's from ASOS, Jon's not there. It's the very last part of the chapter where Mormont is killed as well as Craster. Gilly asks Sam to take her and the baby, or else "They" will. Sam asks who They is, and one of the older wives responds: "The Boy's brothers," "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. Those poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons." I think it goes without saying that Toddler wights aren't really going to be that fearsome, so she's most likely referring to Others, particularly since it was the others themselves that always took Craster's sons.



While it may be true that they are being converted into others, I personally don't think thats the case.

I think these women see these monsters come and take their sons and assume that they are becoming like them since the monsters come and never grow older and never go away they assume that their children replenish their ranks.

I think that The Others take these sons as sacrifices. Either The Others are "gods" themselves (which is more than likely what Craster and his wives believe) or The Others then sacrifice these children in the names of THEIR GODS (what I find most likely).

I just don't know if I can believe that humans can be transformed into Others, that doesn't seem like the world GRRM has been painting for us. Though, like always, I could easily be wrong.






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auyushu
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

I think that The Others take these sons as sacrifices. Either The Others are "gods" themselves (which is more than likely what Craster and his wives believe) or The Others then sacrifice these children in the names of THEIR GODS (what I find most likely).

I just don't know if I can believe that humans can be transformed into Others, that doesn't seem like the world GRRM has been painting for us. Though, like always, I could easily be wrong.


I could go either way on that really. The lands north of the wall have the whole transformation thing going on anyway, with Bran and Bloodraven becoming the trees. Like I said, it's in the books, but who knows whether or not it's true.

Unreliable narrators FTW!



This post was edited on 9/19 at 8:02 pm


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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

Unreliable narrators FTW!



Probably the greatest thing about the way this story is told. You can't accept anything as fact until you hear it told by multiple people, just like the real world. Everyone has their own side of the story that suits them, just like the real world.


GRRM's greatest accomplishment is his mind numbing ability to take a fantastical tale and tell it through the POVs of multiple extremely realistic characters.

The traditional fantasy hero doesn't exist in this story, every one of the people who would have fallen into that category (Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower etc etc) died at least a decade before the real story started. Thats impressive as frick imo.






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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

I see it the other way, there have been plenty of Winters with no mention of the Others.


Every time someone is in the presence of an Other, they mention the sudden coldness that has appeared. I think the Others/White Walkers bring the cold, not the other way around.






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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


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reference to the Dothraki giving gifts to other people AND it seems very against their nature to do such a thing.


The Dothraki ONLY give gifts. They do not trade or pay for things. They take or they give.









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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


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The other's blade sounds suspiciously like Dawn, The Sword of The Morning.....


I actually had the same thought.

No real way to tie them together.

Other than Ice and ice.


Can one of you recap the description of Dawn for me?






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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

I guess that could be true. I've never caught that or thought of it. I just thought that Craster gave up his sons in order to be left alone. But that also raises the question of WHY the others would leave him alone because he gave up their sons. What do they get in return. Now I'm intrigued


Wights are made from dead people. Maybe Others are made from live ones (male babies). Maybe they take Craster's babies to some "chief" Other maker.






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Mr. Wayne
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


Something I'm pulling from your guys discussion... What if the sons are being taken and are becoming the new children of the forest. I know it's odd, because Bran and co meet up with girls as well, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Bloodraven is the Night King. I don't want him to be, but it would make sense that someone so dark and mysterious might be bringing forth the others and trying to revive the children to set things back as they were before the First Men.





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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

Bloodraven is the Night King. I don't want him to be, but it would make sense that someone so dark and mysterious might be bringing forth the others and trying to revive the children to set things back as they were before the First Men.



I've thought that he was the Great Other since the first time I read Dance and he is training Bran as his heir. Remember Mel's vision when she saw a terrible young boy with a wolf for a face and she knew without a doubt that he MUST be the great other? I think for once she was right, at least kind of, he is the future great other. The heir apparent if you will.






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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

he is training Bran as his heir.


My problem with this is, how is he going to get Bran to forget his people and fight them with the Others?

Didn't the Children of the Forest fight the Others for thousands of years? Why would Others be making COTF?






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CottonWasKing
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

how is he going to get Bran to forget his people and fight them with the Others?



I think its possible that Bloodraven is planning on warging into Bran in his final moments. Either that or is attempting to brainwash Bran into thinking that overtaking Westeros is the "right" thing to do. I don't believe he succeeds in either however.

quote:

Didn't the Children of the Forest fight the Others for thousands of years?


Yes, they gave their lives to defend the realms of men for thousands upon thousands of years and for what? To get their people slaughtered and their gods eradicated? To have their very culture and sense of being purged from the realm to the point that people now believe they are only myth? I can understand their desire for vengeance and their desire to return home.

They are obviously too weak and too outnumbered to do that themselves. But have you ever wondered why they attached themselves to Bloodraven? A man of Valyrian descent with no ties to the first men (the children's last known allies)? Maybe because Bloodraven found a way to deliver them the army they needed. Maybe he found a way to bend their enemy to their will so that they fight for them?

Thats my take on it anyway.

quote:

Why would Others be making COTF?


I don't think they are.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 10:00 pm


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Tiger in NY
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re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)


quote:

They are obviously too weak and too outnumbered to do that themselves. But have you ever wondered why they attached themselves to Bloodraven? A man of Valyrian descent with no ties to the first men (the children's last known allies)? Maybe because Bloodraven found a way to deliver them the army they needed. Maybe he found a way to bend their enemy to their will so that they fight for them?



I like the theory, and it is well thought out, but there is a whole lot of conjecture there. You are doing some real critical thinking. I like it.



Oh yeah, and while GRRM throws the stereotypical fairytale assumptions of good versus evil out the window with the regular citizens of Westeros, I do get the feeling he saves that for the COTF and Others (Good vs Evil).
I think he'll maintain that, which is why I have a hard time believing that the COTF would join the Others.



This post was edited on 9/19 at 10:09 pm


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