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BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

quote:

I find it a bit mysterious that GRRM would give us no information on the parents of Ned Dayne. Not a bit surprised through.

We actually don't know much about any of the Daynes. And yet, they are one of the most interesting Houses.



Absolutely.

I think it's coming in the next book though. This was a question asked to GRRM at a recent Q&A in Spain along with his answer:

quote:

Arthur Dayne has been presented as the quintessential chivalrous knight. How could he support the atrocities of Aerys, that even Jaime was horrified by?

Well... keep reading.


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
That quote just supports my notion of Arthur Dayne. He followed Rhaegar, at some point in his tenure as a member of the Kingsguard he made a choice revolving around the official king and who he felt was his true king.
This post was edited on 8/22 at 5:51 pm


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Something else too that has always bothered me. If Ned killed Arthur Dayne as we're led to believe how did he make it out of Starfall alive when dropping off his sword? He could've easily been killed and they still would get the sword.

That just seems so very odd to me.


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Something else too that has always bothered me. If Ned killed Arthur Dayne as we're led to believe how did he make it out of Starfall alive when dropping off his sword? He could've easily been killed and they still would get the sword.

That just seems so very odd to me.




I've always thought of the Daynes as the Starks of the south.

They let Ned walk because it was the right thing to do.

I wonder how Ned got Ice? Surely his father or Brandon had it before him and they died in King's Landing as we all know. How did the sword make its way to Winterfell? surely Aerys didn't send it.


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

I've always thought of the Daynes as the Starks of the south.

They let Ned walk because it was the right thing to do.


But just totally scot free? And they even give a descendant the same nickname. It just seems very, very odd.

quote:

I wonder how Ned got Ice? Surely his father or Brandon had it before him and they died in King's Landing as we all know. How did the sword make its way to Winterfell? surely Aerys didn't send it.



This is what it's wiki says:

quote:

The name "Ice" is a legacy from the Age of Heroes, and predates the current sword. About four hundred years before Robert Baratheon's reign, the Valyrian steel greatsword was spell-forged in Valyria and acquired by the Starks, who named it after that legacy.[2] It became the sword of the Lord of Winterfell. Eddard Stark used the sword in battle and to personally execute condemned prisoners. After his capture, Ilyn Payne was given the sword and used it to execute Eddard himself.[3] Ilyn carried the blade for a short time until Tywin Lannister took it from him and had Ice re-forged into two longswords, Widow's Wail, and the longsword later called Oathkeeper.


ETA: And I misread your question apparently.

I've wondered that as well. Would Rhaegar have made sure they got it or was he already gone at that point?
This post was edited on 8/22 at 6:08 pm


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

I've wondered that as well. Would Rhaegar have made sure they got it or was he already gone at that point?




I mean Rhaegar was still alive but I can't see even him giving the enemy back his Valyrian greatsword right before they went to war.

quote:

But just totally scot free?


If the tables were turned would Ned have killed Rhaegar if he brought back Brandon's Ice? I don't think he would've. It was war and they lost and they were honorable people who took it as an honor that Arthur got the privilege to die a warriors death at the hands of a man as great as Eddard Stark.



Or there is a lot more to the story that we haven't heard.


jrodLSUke
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
I did find it interesting the Edric is the Lord of Starfell. Something bad must have happened to the former lord.

Maybe when Ned Stark returned Dawn, he did so by sticking Lord Boba Dayne with the pointy end?


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BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

I mean Rhaegar was still alive but I can't see even him giving the enemy back his Valyrian greatsword right before they went to war.


Before or after Lyanna?

quote:

If the tables were turned would Ned have killed Rhaegar if he brought back Brandon's Ice? I don't think he would've. It was war and they lost and they were honorable people who took it as an honor that Arthur got the privilege to die a warriors death at the hands of a man as great as Eddard Stark.



To be fair, it'd be more like would Robb and Co. killed Rhaegar after he killed Ned and returned the sword. I'd say probably not killed but the welcome certainly wouldn't have been warm.

quote:

Or there is a lot more to the story that we haven't heard.


And it'll end up being mindblowing and nowhere near close to what we're thinking up.


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Before or after Lyanna?




Brandon and Rickard only died after going to KL after Brandon demanded that Rhaegar "Come out and die" for the crime of kidnapping Lyanna.

quote:

To be fair, it'd be more like would Robb and Co. killed Rhaegar after he killed Ned and returned the sword. I'd say probably not killed but the welcome certainly wouldn't have been warm.



You're right, better analogy but we have no details on what Ned's stay at Starfall was like, just that he went and came home. Its pretty safe to say that Robb would've allowed Rhaegar to go home I believe.

quote:

And it'll end up being mindblowing and nowhere near close to what we're thinking up.



Without a doubt and I think that will be the case. Though I could see either side.
This post was edited on 8/22 at 6:28 pm


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Brandon and Rickard only died after going to KL after Brandon demanded that Rhaegar "Come out and die" for the crime of kidnapping Lyanna.


Surely they didn't leave Ice at Winterfell?

It's possible it was returned with the bones of Brandon and Rickard. I remember Tyrion mentioning wanting to do that with Ice and Ned's bones before Tywin decided to use it for his own house.
This post was edited on 8/22 at 6:35 pm


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Surely they didn't leave Ice at Winterfell?




I've thought about that but if Brandon had it surely he wouldn't leave his valyrian steel at home when he left to go fight the greatest knight of his day.

and Rickard planned judgement by combat from the beginning he wouldn't have left it either.

quote:

It's possible it was returned with the bones of Brandon and Rickard. I remember Tyrion mentioning wanting to do that with Ice and Ned's bones before Tywin decided to use it for his own house.



possible but Aerys doesn't strike me as the type.


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

possible but Aerys doesn't strike me as the type


So I found this reading his wiki (creepy fricking bastard):

quote:

After repeatedly cutting himself on the Iron Throne he developed a phobia about blades, and forbade any sharp implements in his presence other than the swords of his Kingsguard, refusing even to trim his nails or hair.


So it's likely they wouldn't have even been able to enter with the blade.

Also, The Mad King ordered Lord Jon Arryn to deliver him the heads of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon. And he refused. I wonder if Arryn possibly delivered it to the Starks knowing what was to come.


CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Also, The Mad King ordered Lord Jon Arryn to deliver him the heads of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon. And he refused. I wonder if Arryn possibly delivered it to the Starks knowing what was to come.



Now that sounds possible

although judging by the quote about Aerys you just posted I would guess. Gerold Hightower would be the one responsible as LC of the Kingsguard.


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
I just have the feeling that given the opposition to what went down (especially their deaths and the manner of it) that someone at KL wanted Aerys dead. Sending the Starks their greatsword back would be a way of helping that along without doing the deed themselves.


TideSaint
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Nice work gentlemen. However, I've read all 39 pages of this thread and it amazes me that all of you overlooked this piece regarding Cersei's trial by combat:

She is thinking about the trial and how she will be judged by a trial by combat and that the fact that she MUST be represented by a member of the Kingsguard. She reviews all of the KG members and says that her accuser (Osney Kettleblack? I know he's a Kettleblack, but can't remember his first name) would kill the only two KG members (Boros Blount and Mandon Moore) she had at her disposal. She gets her champion once finding out about the death of Myrcella's bodyguard in Dorne.

That means her trial will be decided between Robert Strong and the Kettleblack accuser, not a trial by seven.


NIH
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
If that's correct that furthers the theory that Robert Strong will win the trial then go on some kind of uncontrollable rampage where he kills a few key players.


TideSaint
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

If that's correct that furthers the theory that Robert Strong will win the trial then go on some kind of uncontrollable rampage where he kills a few key players.


It was in one of Cersei's last chapters. If someone can provide a link to where I can find the chapter's online, I will post the exact paragraph.


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Qyburn introduces Robert Strong specifically as her "champion" so I always just assumed he would be the one fighting for her.


TideSaint
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

Qyburn introduces Robert Strong specifically as her "champion" so I always just assumed he would be the one fighting for her


That's true. However, in one of her chapters (I think it's in AFFC) she thinks about who would be her champion and all she has is Blount and Moore. She says that Osney Kettleblack would kill both of them due to their incompetence. That's why she is so excited when she learns that Oakheart was killed.

If anyone has a PDF of AFFC on hand they could find the exact quote.


BluegrassBelle
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
quote:

That's true. However, in one of her chapters (I think it's in AFFC) she thinks about who would be her champion and all she has is Blount and Moore. She says that Osney Kettleblack would kill both of them due to their incompetence. That's why she is so excited when she learns that Oakheart was killed.


It's when she's still in her cell I believe. Before the Walk of Shame. Qyburn naming Robert Strong was after that.

I'm not doubting you or anything. I'm just saying we probably didn't mention it much here (even though we definitely talked about WHO Robert Strong really is) because it seems a little bit of a moot point after it was acknowledged he would be the champion for Ceresi after she thought about that.


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