QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support) - Page 11 - TigerDroppings.com

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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40375 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

And I get what you are trying to say, but after watching the bowl game and spring game recently, I see nothing in your data that makes me optimistic about our qb play this year. And im not even a jj hater. I think he may give us the best chance to win. When he makes a great play I will cheer and when he makes a dumb play I will down my drink and try not to cuss if their are ladies around.

I like debating lsu football and Im not getting mad but it is kinda like a chicken and the egg question. Is it the passing games fault that the running game sucked bc we couldnt relieve any of the pressure. Or did the passing game suck bc the running game never got going.

And I could pick some data points like:
breast size, amount of money, where she wants to live, if she wants to have any more kids to make Kate gosselin look comparable to keira knightly but it doesnt make it so.






I'm glad you rebutted. I asked for opinions, so it's good to not just have everyone say, "Oh this is awesome."






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40375 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I suggest that you decided before you started that a poor running game was the main reason for the inept offense.


I believed that to be true, but it doesn't mean I tried to filter the data or form it to prove my assertion. I began looking at it to see if the numbers would prove my assumption.

quote:

To smugly suggest that those who think otherwise are "foolish and wrong" suggests that you put too much faith in your numbers.


I never said they were "foolish and wrong." I may have said bits and pieces of their beliefs are foolish and wrong, but I never said what you are implying.

quote:

I suppose that I must foolishly remain unconvinced by your argument.


I didn't post it with the intentions of getting 500 e-high fives. I put in the work to look at some data to see what would turn up.

Let's face it, most of the arguments on here are: "JJ sucks cause he gets sacked", "JJ sucks cause he can't throw deep" "JJ just sucks" without any real attempt to support claims other than "I saw it so I know it's true."

A lot of times those opinions are skewed. For example, people arguing that he's inaccurate. That's flatly untrue. It just is. But the entire failure of the offense causes people to magnify the performance of one or two players and argue things which actually aren't true at all.






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Weaver
Southeastern LA Fan
Mandeville, LA
Member since Nov 2005
21127 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

OBUDan


Just give up. There are JJ supporters and JL supporters. I guarantee you if JL starts, those same people that wanted him to start will want to bench him after the first pick six. Same for Jefferson, they will want him in and as soon as he gets sacked and costs us a game, they will call for JL. I just want a damn running game, the hell with the qb.






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TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

And I cant think of a single lsu player, coach, or fan with a brain who would take JJ 2009 over Flynn 2007




you still aren't getting it






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TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I guarantee you if JL starts, those same people that wanted him to start will want to bench him after the first pick six.


I assure you there are a few on here that would want him to play regardless of how he played.






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N.O. via West-Cal
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
4126 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Thanks to OBUDan for a great post that obviously took a lot of work. Sure, he has a position but he sure went to some trouble to support it and also seemed willing to note where the stats did not completely support him (e.g., noting that Flynn was a better runner and also showing the stats where Flynn had an edge as a passer).

Very interesting read.






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alange
LSU Fan
Island hoppin
Member since Feb 2009
4820 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

OBUDan

I'm so glad you did this because **HONESTLY** I was about to. Very thorough for a TD post, also. I'm glad it was lengthy enough to stick around for me to see.

*e-hi 5*






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AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Apr 2008
5309 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Our O and D in '09 were about as non-complimentary as they could get. And our OL and QB didn't realy agree with one another either. Just miserable team chemistry. IOW, no one helped JJ out much (and he didn't help himself).

With that said, if I was drafting a QB and my only options were JJ ('09 version) and Flynn ('07 version), I would without equivocation pick Flynn. So if the stats are reaching a different conclusion, then I'll assume they simply aren't properly accounting for all the variables and the method is flawed.






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Tigerloo
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
378 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

In actuality, what you are arguing makes very little sense from a statistical standpoint.

You are claiming that Flynn checked the offense out of bad plays and into good plays, thus the disparity between the rush games. Besides the fact that it's such an enormous gap that that seems highly unlikely, then why didn't it positively affect the passing game as much as well?

I mean, theoretically, if Flynn does such a great job of checking into great plays while JJ does poor job of it, shouldn't Flynn's passing numbers be off the charts better than JJ's?


Does anyone find it interesting that the rushing offense ranked 90th, but the passing game ranked 97th? Seems like if the "real reason" the offense was so bad was really the rushing game then the passing game would be better??







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Tigerloo
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
378 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


......and, btw, those rankings do not push sacks to the passing game, so you could make a case that the passing game was much worse than the running game (as if that was really possible).

They both better be 50-60 places better this year or I'm afraid we're looking at a train wreck.







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DaSaltyTiger
LSU Fan
Alexandria/Pineville, LA area
Member since Dec 2004
4689 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Candidly, if the offensive line does not produce better, it will be more of the same.





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TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Candidly, if the offensive line does not produce better, it will be more of the same.


+1

I remember making a thread about the o-line after I got back from seattle. they have to get better.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
90302 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Candidly, if the offensive line does not produce better, it will be more of the same.


Offensive line can be worked around. You can scheme an offense to play to your strengths. If the coaching, particularly of skill position players doesn't improve LSU will be in a lot of trouble. The offense appeared lost far into the season. When you have two seasoned QB's, neither who appears can read a defense to save their lives and the problems manifested in different manners you have problems beyond player ability and position.






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TigerFan55555
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Nov 2008
4715 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


numbers schmumbers, all bullshite, you either got it or you dont...and if he had it this thread wouldnt exist...





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N.O. via West-Cal
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
4126 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


I'll let OBUDan speak for himself, but I don't think he set out to prove that JJ is as good as Flynn or that he would take 2009 JJ over Flynn. Instead, I think he used the stats of a player that won a NC for LSU and who is universally considered a "good" college QB if not better so that there would be a benchmark against which to compare JJ's performance. That's all I got out of it, anyway, and I would never take 2009 JJ over 2007 Flynn.









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Chimlim
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jul 2005
11233 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


I agree....QB is not our major problem. That said, shouldn't that concern many people about the coaching staff? I mean, the offense is an obvious problem and Miles did not fire Crowton. If QB play was the only problem, then the whole Perrilloux excuse would be valid. But obviously, QB was not the only problem, it was only part of a much, much bigger problem with the entire offense. The fact both our QBs lack confidence and leadership is more troubling then their play on the field. It all comes back to coaching. Crowton does not know how to coach a QB and forces them to execute plays they are not comfortable with. Miles' biggest mistake is keeping him. Combine that with an Oline that gets dominated, provides poor pass protection, and a running game that is non-existent and you have a train wreck for an offense.

The good news is that you can't do much worse then 112 in the country, that's pretty much rock bottom. You can only improve from there. The bad news is that with Crowton, improvement will be minimal.






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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Washington
Member since Oct 2009
14486 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Thanks for the analysis. I'm sure the fact that the coaches chew this stuff all the time is the reason why we won't see a change under center next year.

I think JJ can be a good QB with some more quality work.






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