QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support) - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

As I told you before nothing about MF or 2007 is gonna help JJ this coming season.




I don't see what "helping" JJ has anything to do with what I was saying.

My point was simple, the main problem with our offense in 2009 was lack of a potent running attack, not quarterback play.






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Doc Fenton
Yale Fan
Member since Feb 2007
50726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Yeah, but in 2009 it was pretty obvious that the mediocrity of the passing game hurt the running game much more than the mediocrity of the running game hurt the passing game. Just saying.





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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

First, you've conveniently taken out all statistics relating to total offensive production.


I'm assuming these are already well known.

quote:

Second, you cite defensive statistics without considering SOS.


What relevance does a subjective S.O.S. ranking have to do with statistical on field performance?

quote:

Third, you make no mention of the injuries to LSU's 3 most hyped players for 2007: Will Arnold, Early Doucet, and Flynn himself.


Okay..

quote:

Fourth, you act as if Flynn was just some lucky beneficiary of a better running game




I can give you that a QB has the responsibility of checking into better plays and yatta yatta...but the fact is, no QB is going to turn a 3,000 yd. rushing attack into a 1,500 yard rushing attack.

The failure of the run game had a lot more to do than a "QB operating" it.

quote:

I mean, obviously, JJ in 2009 wasn't operating anywhere near Flynn's level in 2007.


Which is entirely your subjective opinion supported by zero statistical data. All of the stats provided prove that JJ "operates" as well as Flynn. And your only argument will be, "well it's obvious cause Flynn is just better at operating."

He gets more yard per attempt, he completes at a higher rate, he turns it over at a lesser rate.

The glaring difference between the 2007 offense and 2009 offense is the rushing attack, which is exactly what the analysis set out to prove.






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ezride25
USA Fan
They call me ez
Member since Nov 2008
15711 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Dan your argument was well researched and well articulated. Sometimes people just aren't ready for reason.





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Doc Fenton
Yale Fan
Member since Feb 2007
50726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

The failure of the run game had a lot more to do than a "QB operating" it.


Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's? You're comparing apples to oranges here.

If you don't buy my analysis of things, then fine. But I'm not the one trying to "prove" such things with deceptive stats. I'm just telling you what I saw on the field, and what I saw was this: with the sole exception of Charles Scott at RB, every single position on the offense looked poorly coached last year, including Jefferson at QB.

He's not anywhere near as polished as Flynn was in 2007, and I think your attempts to show otherwise with this statistical analysis of yours is silly.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Yeah, but in 2009 it was pretty obvious that the mediocrity of the passing game hurt the running game much more than the mediocrity of the running game hurt the passing game. Just saying.



How so?

I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.






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Doc Fenton
Yale Fan
Member since Feb 2007
50726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.








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XbengalTiger
LSU Fan
212 miles from Tiger Stadium
Member since Oct 2003
4757 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's?
What does this even mean? Did Flynn have a super secret way of handing off the ball that made the running game better?






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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19872 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

How so?

I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.


geeeeeeeees



you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's? You're comparing apples to oranges here.



Sure?

Flynn had 215 rushing yards.

JJ had 171 rushing yards?

What other contribution are you talking about?

quote:

He's not anywhere near as polished as Flynn was in 2007, and I think your attempts to show otherwise with this statistical analysis of yours is silly.



But there's really no way you can prove that. Are you not just basically saying Flynn is better because he looks better?

In the context of course Flynn looked better, he played with a 3,000 yard rushing attack.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.



I'm not a JJ apologist. I went into the research looking to see what the results bared out.

You have much more of an agenda than I do.






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Spirit of Dunson
Columbia Fan
Member since Mar 2007
21490 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


well, I've run my own numbers. Based on a third-order non-linear regression analysis on Big Cat Drills, I have determined, by at least 3 standard deviations, that Flynn had more intangibles than JJ.

suck it.






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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19872 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

You have much more of an agenda than I do.


whatever makes you feel better bro....

somebody disagrees with you and they suddenly have an agenda.

Infactuation with meaningless fricking stats....
agendas about certian players...

everybody has their problems I suppose.






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Doc Fenton
Yale Fan
Member since Feb 2007
50726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

But there's really no way you can prove that.


I'm not trying to prove that. Why do you keep trying to get me to "prove" my opinions? That's not what this thread is about.

I did spend a good bit of time supporting my arguments last year, but it's April, and I don't feel like doing right now. I just don't think that your statistical analysis shows much of anything. Can't we just leave it at that?






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dinosaur
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2007
598 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


From what appears to be a well thought out post, I personally see a major flaw. No matter what sort of stats you can come up with, Jefferson is the most inaccurate passer I can recall at LSU since Marcus Randall. Yards per completion and percentage completion have a lot to do with the guys being thrown to and the plays being called. LSU rarely threw downfield last year, mainly because Jefferson just didn't have that ability to get the ball close enough to the receiver. That inability allowed the opponents to stack the line with 8 and 9 men. I don't care how good your line is, it is really hard for 5 or 6 to block 8 or 9. So, I disagree. If JJ was just a little bit more of a threat in passing, the run game would have been better. Also, I watched him back out the pocket into a sack several times, and people blamed those sacks on the line, which wasn't really fair. The pocket was there, but he would not stay in it.

Without major improvement in quarterback play, we are in for another season like 2009. A good team that could have been great, leaving us upset with a nine win season.



This post was edited on 4/20 at 9:08 pm


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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Spirit of Dunson








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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40369 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I'm not trying to prove that. Why do you keep trying to get me to "prove" my opinions? That's not what this thread is about.

I did spend a good bit of time supporting my arguments last year, but it's April, and I don't feel like doing right now. I just don't think that your statistical analysis shows much of anything. Can't we just leave it at that?


I guess I was operating under the assumption that if you were going to tell me I'm wrong you'd have some way of proving it other than just saying, "Welp, that's wrong."






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Choctaw
Navy Fan
Pumpin' Sunshine
Member since Jul 2007
49659 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise


He posted both players stats

quote:

not by some silly statistical analysis.


stats are only silly when you disagree with them.






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Doc Fenton
Yale Fan
Member since Feb 2007
50726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


to intangibles!!!





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Tigerdandy
LSU Fan
Member since May 2007
726 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.
.

And you, like all the rest of the JJ bashers, see what you want to see.






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