QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support) | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

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Doc Fenton
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Member since Feb 2007
51086 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

There are several major reasons for why our offense was a walking disaster last season, but, despite what most believe, QB isn't the major problem.


This is what I've been saying for a long time. Still, I really don't understand how you could demonstrate such a thing statistically.






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MichiganTiger
LSU Fan
Where Global Warming is Welcomed!
Member since Dec 2004
7132 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Thx OBUDan...great stuff. Geaux Tigahs!





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Doc Fenton
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2007
51086 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise. It will eventually be measured by the sum of their careers, not by some silly statistical analysis.


+1

And this was one of the silliest statistical analyses I've ever seen on the Rant, which is saying something.






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TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Flynn didnt get sacked 9 million times either


just a few less than jefferson did actually






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I don't think anyone believes Jefferson is anything better than a good/average quarterback right now, but he may get there yet.


Exactly. If he continues the natural course (most players improve over time) then he should be perfectly capable.

quote:

The biggest source of our woes is the running game, which has been hampered by the O-Line and somewhat by Crowton. It's unfair to lump all of our offensive troubles on Jefferson. He's made plenty of mistakes, to be sure, but I think he still has a lot of untapped potential.








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HeadCoach
LSU Fan
Shady's Parking Lot
Member since Mar 2009
4817 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


So, being obsessed with upcoming draft, I've even ventured into '12, '13, and as sad as it is, even '14 mock drafts. While they are obviously only speculation, they're fun to look at. The few 2012 draft rankings had JJ as the 10th best QB in the class. That's pretty good, IMO.





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XbengalTiger
LSU Fan
212 miles from Tiger Stadium
Member since Oct 2003
4807 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise
I don't think that is what he was trying to do. I think the point of his stat breakdown was to show the main difference between the 07 offense and the 09 offense was the running game which led to a lack of offensive plays and overall production. I think he was trying to show that JJ could be the "manager" type QB we need to win it he gets some run support. He used Flynn as the measuring stick because that was our last successfull QB and season. I don't think anything he posted was intended to tear down Flynn. JMHO.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Flynn was also the acknowledged leader of that '07 team, which was a team full of leadership types. Ask the players.



Naw, Hester/Dorsey were the leaders.

Even still, you can't possible account for that in any sort of calculable way.

quote:

Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise.


Not tearing him down. I'm using a highly esteemed QB compared to a not so highly esteemed QB to illustrate the minimal differences between the two.

Flynn was a very good QB for LSU.

quote:

He's at his best when he has to be. A real competitor. That's why he wins all those tournaments. Winning the big ones over the long term is the measure.



That's a lot of subjective opinion. It's impossible to put all wins/losses upon any single player in football. Very different from tennis where it comes down to a man-to-man battle.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Still, I really don't understand how you could demonstrate such a thing statistically.



It's definitely flawed as all statistical cases are.

But I did my best to compare 2 players in as close as situations as possible.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

And this was one of the silliest statistical analyses I've ever seen on the Rant, which is saying something.




How so?

I'm open to criticisms.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I don't think that is what he was trying to do. I think the point of his stat breakdown was to show the main difference between the 07 offense and the 09 offense was the running game which led to a lack of offensive plays and overall production. I think he was trying to show that JJ could be the "manager" type QB we need to win it he gets some run support. He used Flynn as the measuring stick because that was our last successfull QB and season. I don't think anything he posted was intended to tear down Flynn. JMHO.


Yes, exactly. Thanks






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Doc Fenton
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2007
51086 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Well, I will give you this, that's the first tennis reference I've seen on the Rant in quite a while.







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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North Louisiana
Member since Nov 2009
22053 posts
 Online 

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise.


dan you are infactuated with this.

I will say I appreciate your efforts, but at the end of the day, your post doesnt make JJ an ounce better than he was the minute before you posted.

As I told you before nothing about MF or 2007 is gonna help JJ this coming season.
But if it makes you feel better, got you a couple high-fives from like caliber thinking LSU fans then congrats.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


So what's silly?





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Colonel Flagg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
10174 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Good Post

It sucks we needed someone to do all that work to show some idiots that the OL was the major weakness last year.






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roygu
Member since Jan 2004
8587 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Flynn put up higher yardage totals but LSU typically ran more plays.


Maybe those seven or eight more third down conversions per game were more important than you admitted.






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matt314
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
144 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


OBUDan:
quote:

That's a lot of subjective opinion. It's impossible to put all wins/losses upon any single player in football. Very different from tennis where it comes down to a man-to-man battle.



Congrats for getting the point in using stats to meaningfully evaluate individual performance in a team game.

The key word is subjective, and your evaluation uses so many assumptions about the play of the other 10 guys that's all it can ever be. What I've watched on many Saturdays in the last few years subjectively tells me that Flynn was a much better QB at LSU than JJ has ever been yet.

But that's just me. And Hester himself would tell you that Flynn was the leader of that offensive unit, and that takes nothing away from Hester. And stating he was not is belittling Flynn's accomplishments with a subjective opinion, even if popular. Jacob has become a bit of a saint around these parts.



This post was edited on 4/20 at 8:34 pm


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Doc Fenton
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2007
51086 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


First, you've conveniently taken out all statistics relating to total offensive production. Second, you cite defensive statistics without considering SOS. Third, you make no mention of the injuries to LSU's 3 most hyped players for 2007: Will Arnold, Early Doucet, and Flynn himself. Fourth, you act as if Flynn was just some lucky beneficiary of a better running game, when in fact the very best thing he did as a QB was ... operate the running game. His long passing ability was a bonus.

I mean, obviously, JJ in 2009 wasn't operating anywhere near Flynn's level in 2007. You might as well cite pass completion status and ask, "Well, given these stats, JJ compares favorable to JR's sophomore year, so why can't JJ become a #1 NFL pick as well?"

It's not wrong. It's just silly. You can't decipher anything from it at all.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

Maybe those seven or eight more third down conversions per game were more important than you admitted.



They definitely were.

Unfortunately, they were converted by the running game, not the passing game.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

As I told you before nothing about MF or 2007 is gonna help JJ this coming season.




I don't see what "helping" JJ has anything to do with what I was saying.

My point was simple, the main problem with our offense in 2009 was lack of a potent running attack, not quarterback play.






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