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Started By
Message
Posted on 9/23/14 at 10:53 am to ctiger69
quote:
Better hope they don't put a 40 caliber on the 45 frame which eliminates the recoil the way hk did for it's usp gun thus making the 9 mm obsolete.
Why wouldn't you just get a .45 then? Anything to justify poor decisions, right?
Posted on 9/23/14 at 10:56 am to Galactic Inquisitor
40 S&W 135 grains Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point.
Glock 22 4.5" Barrel
•Muzzle Velocity: 1442 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 623 ft. lbs.
Please show me a 45 acp round that can reach the 600 lb energy mark?
Or a 9 mm round that reaches 600?
Waiting
Glock 22 4.5" Barrel
•Muzzle Velocity: 1442 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 623 ft. lbs.
Please show me a 45 acp round that can reach the 600 lb energy mark?
Or a 9 mm round that reaches 600?
Waiting
This post was edited on 9/23/14 at 10:58 am
Posted on 9/23/14 at 10:57 am to H.M. Murdock
quote:This makes zero sense. Way more capacity than .45, and ballistically superior to 9 with only 4 less rounds. .40 is the clear winner. I mean, it's not even close.
40 is the caliber of trolls and imps, such poop.
If you need more capacity choose a FNX in 45,15+1.
One thing both 9mm and 45acp guys can agree in is the fact that 40 belongs in a trash can.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:04 am to AlxTgr
Except you you have a big round moving very fast, which equates to the worst parts of the thump of the 45 and muzzle snap of the 9
Better hit what you are going for on that first shot
Better hit what you are going for on that first shot
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:07 am to KBeezy
quote:135 grains ?????
Except you you have a big round moving very fast
quote:I've actually shot .40 in a light gun. It's a breeze.
which equates to the worst parts of the thump of the 45 and muzzle snap of the 9
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:07 am to KBeezy
quote:
Better hit what you are going for on that first shot
People who shoot .40s eat pine bark for lunch and never miss.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:10 am to KBeezy
I've never had trouble shooting a .40 caliber handgun. The way I see it, it can still kill you. I think these discussions can get a little ridiculous and out of hand. It's not like you typically hunt with these calibers and need the bullet to travel over 200 yards. What do they say, a self-defense scenario is usually within 25 feet?
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:13 am to SabiDojo
quote:
The way I see it, it can still kill you
That's kind of the point that the FBI uses to support the 9mm
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:16 am to Galactic Inquisitor
And that's fine. I just don't see it as a reason to always say "no" to a .40 caliber handgun. Unless the difference is cost, I consider it negligible.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:33 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
r. It performs well. But I don't see the purpose of bashing the other 3 calibers (40. 45, 357 sig).
I never did such a thing. I've always said it's personal preference and that you will get marginal performance differences from any service caliber. Just do your research on the best JHP bullet/barrel length combination for your gun and carry often.
FWIW I carry Hornady Critical Defense. It's a standard pressure, light-for-caliber 9mm. ShootingtheBull's test of it convinced me that it was better out of a short barrel than the Critical Duty I was carrying. I learned that (in basic terms) greater velocity = less penetration using the same cartridge. To put in basic terms, A Critical Duty out of my 3.5" M&P will penetrate MORE than it will out of my 5" Core. Plus, Critical Defense penetrated between 12-13" in his test. That data would lead me to believe that if I had to use my gun in self defense that te bullet may stay in the perp, which is ideally what I would prefer to happen. That was how I came to the conclusion of what to carry.
quote:
That's progress, right Bap?
I guess it just depends on if you want large bore over capacity. If the difference is around 500 lb-ft for the hottest loads of two different calibers, I will take my chances on my errant/accurate follow-up shots. 500 x 2 > 600.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:39 am to SabiDojo
quote:
What do they say, a self-defense scenario is usually within 25 feet?
Much closer than that.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:39 am to bapple
I don't usually get involved in these threads but all I know that a 9mm to the head drops a pig dead so no need to spend more for a bigger pistol.
For that matter, I have killed more over the years with a .22 to the head but let's not get ridiculous.
For that matter, I have killed more over the years with a .22 to the head but let's not get ridiculous.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:46 am to bapple
quote:
I guess it just depends on if you want large bore over capacity. If the difference is around 500 lb-ft for the hottest loads of two different calibers, I will take my chances on my errant/accurate follow-up shots. 500 x 2 > 600.
Agreed. I keep my 357 loaded with 38 + p indoors. I switch to 357 outdoors.
I keep my 40 loaded in doors with rounds that equal around 400 lbs of energy, light recoil, easy to shoot, and follow up each shot. If I need to bring it outdoors I load it in the 600 lbs range.
9 mm, 40, 45, 357 sig. All very good rounds.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:46 am to TigerDeacon
Must suck to have pigs breaking into your house. Mojo sent.
Posted on 9/23/14 at 11:49 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Must suck to have pigs breaking into your house
Happens all the time
Posted on 9/23/14 at 6:44 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Capacity and effective firing rate -- This is the only logic-based, performance-based criteria to select 9mm
You, sir, are correct. But a lot of the people posting in this thread don't understand, or perhaps choose to ignore, the "effective firing rate" component.
I used to carry a .40 -- did so for a lot of years. But with today's 9mm ammo, I'm more comfortable with a G19 than I would be with a G23. I shoot the G19 faster, and it holds more ammo.
The "old" conventional wisdom was to carry the biggest caliber you could "control." Today's top-tier instructors will tell you to carry the caliber that lets you shoot at the fastest rate of fire while still getting good hits.
I see a lot of students who think firing one shot every five or six seconds is an acceptable rate of fire for self-defense. Anybody can do this with a just about any caliber handgun -- and that's hardly the goal one should strive for.
Muzzle flip is a consideration in picking a SD caliber -- 'cause that's the biggest factor in achieving (or limiting) our rate of fire.
I'll go out on a limb here and say (assuming one maintains the same level of accuracy) that 99% of us can shoot a 9mm faster than we can a .40 (in the same frame gun, like G19 vs. G23). Similarly, we'll all shoot a .22 faster than a 9mm, but the point of significant diminishing returns comes into play quickly with a handgun chambered in .22 LR.
Anyone who has practiced, or shot in competition, with an electronic timer has easily seen the effect of muzzle flip on handgun rates of fire. They have also seen that 1 shot every 5-6 seconds is really slow (and that 4-6 shots per second is achievable, with practice, depending on the degree of muzzle flip).
p.s. 9mm practice ammo is a lot cheaper than .380, .40 and .45 caliber practice ammo. This should enable those who don't have unlimited training budgets to achieve a higher level of proficiency with a 9mm (all other things being equal).
Just my $.02 worth.
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