re: FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division

40 S&W 135 grains Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point.

Glock 22 4.5" Barrel
•Muzzle Velocity: 1442 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 623 ft. lbs.



Please show me a 45 acp round that can reach the 600 lb energy mark?

Or a 9 mm round that reaches 600?


Waiting

Except you you have a big round moving very fast, which equates to the worst parts of the thump of the 45 and muzzle snap of the 9


Better hit what you are going for on that first shot

quote:

---

Better hit what you are going for on that first shot

---

People who shoot .40s eat pine bark for lunch and never miss.

quote:

---

The way I see it, it can still kill you

---

That's kind of the point that the FBI uses to support the 9mm

And that's fine. I just don't see it as a reason to always say "no" to a .40 caliber handgun. Unless the difference is cost, I consider it negligible.

quote:

---

What do they say, a self-defense scenario is usually within 25 feet?

---

Much closer than that.

quote:

---

I guess it just depends on if you want large bore over capacity. If the difference is around 500 lb-ft for the hottest loads of two different calibers, I will take my chances on my errant/accurate follow-up shots. 500 x 2 > 600.

---

Agreed. I keep my 357 loaded with 38 + p indoors. I switch to 357 outdoors.


I keep my 40 loaded in doors with rounds that equal around 400 lbs of energy, light recoil, easy to shoot, and follow up each shot. If I need to bring it outdoors I load it in the 600 lbs range.



9 mm, 40, 45, 357 sig. All very good rounds.

quote:

---

Must suck to have pigs breaking into your house

---

Happens all the time

quote:

---

Capacity and effective firing rate -- This is the only logic-based, performance-based criteria to select 9mm

---

You, sir, are correct. But a lot of the people posting in this thread don't understand, or perhaps choose to ignore, the "effective firing rate" component.

I used to carry a .40 -- did so for a lot of years. But with today's 9mm ammo, I'm more comfortable with a G19 than I would be with a G23. I shoot the G19 faster, and it holds more ammo.

The "old" conventional wisdom was to carry the biggest caliber you could "control." Today's top-tier instructors will tell you to carry the caliber that lets you shoot at the fastest rate of fire while still getting good hits.

I see a lot of students who think firing one shot every five or six seconds is an acceptable rate of fire for self-defense. Anybody can do this with a just about any caliber handgun -- and that's hardly the goal one should strive for.

Muzzle flip is a consideration in picking a SD caliber -- 'cause that's the biggest factor in achieving (or limiting) our rate of fire.

I'll go out on a limb here and say (assuming one maintains the same level of accuracy) that 99% of us can shoot a 9mm faster than we can a .40 (in the same frame gun, like G19 vs. G23). Similarly, we'll all shoot a .22 faster than a 9mm, but the point of significant diminishing returns comes into play quickly with a handgun chambered in .22 LR.

Anyone who has practiced, or shot in competition, with an electronic timer has easily seen the effect of muzzle flip on handgun rates of fire. They have also seen that 1 shot every 5-6 seconds is really slow (and that 4-6 shots per second is achievable, with practice, depending on the degree of muzzle flip).

p.s. 9mm practice ammo is a lot cheaper than .380, .40 and .45 caliber practice ammo. This should enable those who don't have unlimited training budgets to achieve a higher level of proficiency with a 9mm (all other things being equal).

Just my $.02 worth.