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Started By
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re: WaPo op-ed calls out latest Obama lie: not his decision to pull out of Iraq.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:38 pm to SpidermanTUba
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:38 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Was it?
Wake up dumbass! We could have stayed if we wanted to stay. Simple as that.
0
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:41 pm to Champagne
Jennifer Rubin alternates between attacking Obama and attacking Rand Paul. She's bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex and AIPAC.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:42 pm to Navytiger74
Navytiger, are you saying we could have stayed w/o a SOFA? I guess technically we could as occupiers, but to do so would have just dug us in deeper. It's a complicated mess, but we had no good exit plan from either President.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:43 pm to Champagne
I didn't click the link, but Obama chided Romney in one of the debates because he (Romney) had wanted to keep some troops in Iraq.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, Barry.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, Barry.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:44 pm to trackfan
quote:
Jennifer Rubin alternates between attacking Obama and attacking Rand Paul. She's bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex and AIPAC.
How is this conclusory opinion of yours relevant to the fact that Obama now says that it was not his decision to pull the troops from Iraq?
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:49 pm to Champagne
quote:
How is this conclusory opinion of yours relevant to the fact that Obama now says that it was not his decision to pull the troops from Iraq?
Obama is engaging in typical political doublespeak because he ran for President on a pledge to yank troops out of Iraq and I'm glad he did.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:49 pm to Champagne
No SOFA makes it hard for the military to stay, short of a full occupation. That would have meant many more troops plus not exactly good image to project.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:52 pm to wfeliciana
quote:
Navytiger, are you saying we could have stayed w/o a SOFA?
I'm saying that if our troops, our money, and our presence essentially underpin your "government," we can do what we want. And Obama could have.
But we wanted out. I wanted out, you wanted out, and we were in the great majority. Most military folks that I knew wanted out (there were exceptions). We took the out that they gave us and assumed that things wouldn't spiral out of control as quickly as they did.
Bloody-nose for intel. Most of the IC's assessments were wrong. I don't think we saw the rise of a Sunni faction that fricking Zawahiri would admonish to chill the frick out, let alone one who would tell him to GFHS himself in response. I don't think we saw the "Spring Awakening" essentially turning into a nightmare of Sunni extremism.
I do think we're just beginning to understand a region and a people that we've pretended to have clocked for 10 years or more. It's never too late to learn. But the costs do get higher.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:52 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
He doesn't understand how most things work. Reference his thread on returning blinds. That should be all you need to know.
Classic thread about the blinds.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 9:57 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
Navytiger74
Posted on 8/12/14 at 10:17 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
if our troops, our money, and our presence essentially underpin your "government," we can do what we want. And Obama could have.
Yes, we could have but that would have required more troops. In other words you'd really have to want to stay to run a risk of staying with no SOFA. And I agree no one wanted to stay. Not understanding that region and people is an understatement-who was it that said they'd welcome us with open arms (Rumsfeld maybe).
Posted on 8/12/14 at 10:42 pm to wfeliciana
The point of the thread is that campaigned on his decision to pull out of Iraq.
Now he tells us that it was not his decision to pull out of Iraq.
This is another example of his mendacity.
All other points are not directly relevant to the OP, which was to underscore this man Obama and his mendacity.
SOFA, whether the US electorate wanted out -- all are good topics for discussion, but, none of these side issues change the fact that Obama took full credit for ending the war in Iraq and now he wants to blame somebody else for pulling the troops from Iraq.
The SOFA issue was not why we pulled out. Obama never said that during his reelection campaign. In speech after speech, he took personal credit for ending the war in Iraq.
As an aside, we are paying Iran's leaders about 2 billion to agree to continue to negotiate on a nuclear arms limitation agreement. I'm sure that if we gave 2 billion to an Iraqi leader, we could have maintained troops in Iraq pending a new SOFA agreement.
Now he tells us that it was not his decision to pull out of Iraq.
This is another example of his mendacity.
All other points are not directly relevant to the OP, which was to underscore this man Obama and his mendacity.
SOFA, whether the US electorate wanted out -- all are good topics for discussion, but, none of these side issues change the fact that Obama took full credit for ending the war in Iraq and now he wants to blame somebody else for pulling the troops from Iraq.
The SOFA issue was not why we pulled out. Obama never said that during his reelection campaign. In speech after speech, he took personal credit for ending the war in Iraq.
As an aside, we are paying Iran's leaders about 2 billion to agree to continue to negotiate on a nuclear arms limitation agreement. I'm sure that if we gave 2 billion to an Iraqi leader, we could have maintained troops in Iraq pending a new SOFA agreement.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 10:44 pm to trackfan
quote:
typical political doublespeak
That's a nice way to say that he's lying.
We will see what the consequences are for this latest falsehood.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 10:45 pm to Champagne
quote:
As an aside, we are paying Iran's leaders about 2 billion to agree to continue to negotiate on a nuclear arms limitation agreement.
Explain that please.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 12:41 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Going into Iraq in March of 2003 was a mistake. But we broke it. We bear some responsibility.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:13 am to Navytiger74
quote:.
We took the out that they gave us and assumed that things wouldn't spiral out of control as quickly as they did
quote:
I don't think we saw the "Spring Awakening" essentially turning into a nightmare of Sunni extremism.
Ray Charles could have seen that coming.
And in other news Obama lied.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 9:36 am to wfeliciana
You are not aware that we paid off Iran in order to continue the facade that they are willing to negotiate on whether they will develop nuclear capability?
Posted on 8/13/14 at 9:46 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Wasn't Iraq a sovereign nation at the time we withdrew?
Just as sovereign as when we invaded.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 10:26 am to Champagne
quote:
Champagne
/thread
You cannot have it both ways. You have to take responsibility for the good and the bad. That is (unfortunately) a habit with President Obama. He handles criticism very, very poorly.
And I am actually in agreement with President Obama, we should have withdrawn when we did. He took a calculated risk. At some point the Iraqi government has to commit to end sectarian violence. Years and years of an American presence would not have prevented them from going back to their tribal methodologies.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 10:50 am to Champagne
What's next, Obama telling us he didn't pass Obamacare someone else did????
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