re: If Archie ever had an offensive line to speak of,

quote:

---

The OP moron asked if he had through out his career a team worth a shite would he have had a better career. That answer is yes. He was an exceptional talent. Are you dumb enough to keep on thinking that you can take any QB and put them on any team and they will excel. Peyton had exceptional receivers and some decent defenses with Freeney there. Brady has always had a good supporting cast and a great coach. The saints at that time were awful. I don't need to try to convince you I watched the F-ing games. He never had time to throw or go through any kind of progression what so ever. For you to call him a average joe shows you don't know damn thing about him and have never really watched him play. You are probably a fantasy junkie who only looks at stats to evaluate a players talent. Football is a team sport. The best the Saints did in that era were go 8-8 and 7-9, without Archie I promise you they win 2 or 3 games at most.

---

I think old folks like you overrate him because of nostalgia. archie is praised like he was some kind of all time great and he just wasn't. you can blame the team around him or whatever but the fact remains that doing so is dealing with hypotheticals that can't be proven.

quote:

---

I think old folks like you overrate him because of nostalgia. archie is praised like he was some kind of all time great and he just wasn't. you can blame the team around him or whatever but the fact remains that doing so is dealing with hypotheticals that can't be proven.

---

born and raised in Mississippi...southern man credentials

still lives in NOLA...we know how insecure locals can be

kids didn't go to LSU...we can forgive that.

I do sympathize, there was a whole generation of saints fans with no sports idol or celebrity...archie was probably the best player on a shitty team. Heisman candidate, "local" guy,

it's all kind of understandable really, so long as they know we're not believing their stories of his greatness that was withheld. Greatness can't be suppressed.

quote:

---

There is no way to compare other than statistics. So you to are dealing with hypotheticals

---

lolwut

I also want to clarify that circumstances shouldn't be totally dismissed when evaluating a career...I just don't think it is an excuse as to why this average player wasn't a HOFer

His son has always had top lineman, awesome runningbacks, awesome receivers, awesome tight ends...he has played with so much talent...and on both sides of the ball, but Peyton Manning would be great no matter what...

look at drew for instance...he started with an awful san diego team. AWFUL. He had LT and Antonio gates for his last two seasons, but deep down he was great and it started to show...his situation in NOLA. He went to a 3-13 team with no talent beyond an old joe horn and a injured beyond repair/fatter deuce mccallister. 7th round pick was his top wideout, billy miller and the other guy I forget at te, a 4th round rookie was his best lineman...and yet he was still awesome, even better. As the talent around him improved, so did his numbers, but he never became average joe

here were his receivers that year
terrance copper
jammal jones
marques colston (7th round rookie)
joe horn (old as shite joe horn)
reggie bush (a great chain mover but not a TD threat until late in the year)

quote:

---

Comparing Archies era/team to Brees and his is a fruitless endeavour.

On to Fridays game

---

They don't add to your point at all, and in Brees' situation it actually hurts...that's a great player being great despite some super shitty circumstances.

However, I don't want to give the impression that I think environment is totally inconsequential. I just don't think it takes a HOF player and makes him below average/average/above average

great players are great no matter what. They have the talent and the drive, and it takes both.

in the pond of oxford, ms or even college football he was more than an average joe...obviously. In the NFL, he provedto be less than extraordinary.

you sound like a lunatic...Archie's greatest contribution to the NFL is his spunk and that's a fact.

Don't let these idiotic arguments get you down. I have been hearing this nonsense about Archie for decades.
I am completely convinced all of these Manning worshippers see him through their golden-boy, 'he's one of us' glasses, and there is almost no point in arguing.

quote:

---

You can believe what you want but a lot of NFL veterans and legends praise Archie and basically say his was a lost career because he never had any support.

---

Have talked to number of players for his time, including hall of famers, who have said Archie was a great player on bad teams. Most said he would have won a few championships with better teams.

quote:

---

but the shite he catches from some people is absurd

---

the other extreme is also pretty absurd. some people act like he was Joe Montana