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Posted on 7/24/14 at 10:40 am to OMLandshark
No. If they did, they wouldn't have relived the island memories in the flash sideways story in the final season. Also, just because they were in the church, didn't mean they were dead. This follows the whole time travel scenario. What do you think?
Posted on 7/24/14 at 10:51 am to Snatchy
you realize the flash sideways timeline is set long after the events of the series and events on the island, right? it's set in an unspecified time after every single character has died, whether they died on the island (jack, sun and Jin, etc) or died
later, off camera (Hurley, Ben, Desmond, etc).
IOW, the church scene is set years and years after jack closes his eyes next to Vincent and sees the ajira plane fly overhead. after everyone else who didn't die on camera died, the flash sideways timeline began and the characters found each other and were ready to move on to "heaven" together.
later, off camera (Hurley, Ben, Desmond, etc).
IOW, the church scene is set years and years after jack closes his eyes next to Vincent and sees the ajira plane fly overhead. after everyone else who didn't die on camera died, the flash sideways timeline began and the characters found each other and were ready to move on to "heaven" together.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 10:54 am to TH03
quote:
IOW, the church scene is set years and years after jack closes his eyes next to Vincent and sees the ajira plane fly overhead. after everyone else who didn't die on camera died, the flash sideways timeline began and the characters found each other and were ready to move on to "heaven" together.
Using that logic, how did immortal Hurley die?
I know you said they died off camera. How do you know?
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 10:56 am
Posted on 7/24/14 at 10:55 am to Snatchy
Don't get me started on this show. Season 5 and 6 were horrible.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 10:57 am to TH03
Keep in mind, I haven't had a chance to read any internet theories.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:00 am to Snatchy
immortal Hurley? wut?
because it's clearly stated by Christian that the characters collectively created the flash sideways universe in order to find each other after they died and move on to the afterlife together.
quote:
I know you said they died off camera. How do you know?
because it's clearly stated by Christian that the characters collectively created the flash sideways universe in order to find each other after they died and move on to the afterlife together.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:01 am to Snatchy
no theories are needed, it's all stated in the finale.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:09 am to Snatchy
Of course they didn't die in the crash. It's just every time someone comes in here bitching about the finale, they almost without fail say its dumb that they died in the crash. Just making sure you weren't one of these.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:11 am to Snatchy
quote:
I know you said they died off camera. How do you know?
Because Christian said it. Plus it's not as if Hurley would live on through all eternity. He had to die sometime.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:17 am to TH03
quote:
because it's clearly stated by Christian that the characters collectively created the flash sideways universe in order to find each other after they died and move on to the afterlife together.
How did I miss that? I caught we all die sometimes and there is no now.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:21 am to OMLandshark
Like I said, I think I "get" the entire story. I just thought it was lazy to explain everyone's fate by the quote "everyone dies sometime". There was so much substance to this series and to just end it with the Jack arc left me unfulfilled.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 11:22 am
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:38 am to Snatchy
Think about the conversation between Jack and his dad. The show ended perfectly. Jack died saving the survivors off the island and they met together before "moving on".
My wife and I watched the finale while packing to move to another state after living in Texas for 22 years. It was a great opportunity but we hated leaving a life we left. When Christian told Jack "they weren't leaving, just moving on.." My wife and I looked at each other and said "That is us".
Great show
My wife and I watched the finale while packing to move to another state after living in Texas for 22 years. It was a great opportunity but we hated leaving a life we left. When Christian told Jack "they weren't leaving, just moving on.." My wife and I looked at each other and said "That is us".
Great show
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:44 am to Snatchy
quote:
The writing was lazy because they began great arcs, only to end them with "everyone is dead and happy". For the people not in the church, "we don't give a frick".
The writing is lazy because during Season 3 and 4 they began to write to stay ahead of the audience rather than to tell a good story.
Everything had to be about what the audience didn't know, not what it did know. So when the focus becomes everything you can't talk about directly, then the show kind of falls apart. Nothing is then explicitly covered by characters, and all motivations derive from lack of communication because no one could talk about anything directly, for fear of revealing something to the audience.
What saved it were a few great characters, fantastic production values, and cool parts here and there. It was ambitious, but eventually it lost itself. Pun intended.
I still like it for what it is though. Lost was more of an experience in audience interaction more than anything, that's why I don't get someone new watching it right now thinking it's awesome. Half the fun of Lost was communal theorizing.
But this:
quote:
If your invested in the characters I think you'll find it very satisfying. If your invested in the mysteries I think you'll believe you've wasted your time.
Is correct. People who could look beyond the narrative and just see the characters will enjoy it fine. There were a few great arcs. But the show had no idea what it wanted to do. *coughdamonlindelhofcough* That guys sucks. See also Prometheus.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 11:49 am
Posted on 7/24/14 at 11:56 am to Snatchy
quote:
I just thought it was lazy to explain everyone's fate by the quote "everyone dies sometime".
But that was the point of the alternate universe thing...everybody dies at some point, and they created that place for them all to meet up so that they could move into the afterlife together.
I can understand not liking it, but to say it's lazy doesn't make sense to me.
ETA: And this is always the case with Lost:
quote:
If your invested in the characters I think you'll find it very satisfying. If your invested in the mysteries I think you'll believe you've wasted your time.
People who let the "mysteries" bother them and demanded answers to everything were never gonna be satisfied, no matter how the show ended. Also, most of the time people yelling about "We never got any answers!!11!1!" are ignoring the fact that almost everything was answered; they just didn't like what the answers were. There's a huge difference there.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 11:58 am
Posted on 7/24/14 at 12:07 pm to Snatchy
quote:
Like I said, I think I "get" the entire story. I just thought it was lazy to explain everyone's fate by the quote "everyone dies sometime". There was so much substance to this series and to just end it with the Jack arc left me unfulfilled.
What else were they going to end it with? Jack dying in the bamboo forest with Vincent crawling beside him knowing that he secured rescue for his friends was really the only way to end the series. It was perfect. Granted they could have gotten there multiple different ways (which is why I buy that they had the final scene in mind since the Pilot), but the final 10 minutes of LOST were the best 10 minutes of the show.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 12:12 pm to Snatchy
quote:
Just finished Lost. I am dissapoint
I didn't care for it much when it was on, or at least I didn't care for it as much as Lost fanatics did.
In its defense though, one of the key things of Lost was the discussion of it as it happened. Something that a you or any person just watching it now will not get to experience.
Posted on 7/24/14 at 12:30 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
are ignoring the fact that almost everything was answered
What was the significance of the Egyptian hieroglyphics? Specifically the ones that the Dharma initiative built into the computer countdown in the Swann?
What was the significance of pregnancy and babies?
Why did Jacob write in hieroglyphics?
What was the purpose of the numbers? I know they represented candidates, but why these? Why are they everywhere? Did dharma make the code or Jacob?
What was up with Walt? Why was he special?
What was Desmond's sacrifice?
What were the rules? Why did the smoke kill some and not others? Mr. Eko?
What was Widmore's deal? Why did he want candidates, but tried to kill them all?
Who was the woman that killed Jacobs mother? Where did she come from? Why was she against evil men when she committed worse atrocities?
Just a few. Haha. I probably need to read a theories page.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 7/24/14 at 12:37 pm to CocomoLSU
Oh Cocomo 
Here we go... I do apologize in advance:
First, I don't think people want every single answer explicitly stated. That's not the point. (And anyways, we basically saw everyone go off into the afterlife, that's about as complete as you can get.)
Second, the difference is not between whether they did or did not like the answer, the difference is in whether or not the answers actually served the narrative or the contemplation of the narrative well. Most of the time, they didn't. THAT'S why people have a problem with them.
At least for me, I'm not demanding answers, but I am demanding not to go on a pointless thought exercise. The Numbers for one. That was the biggest F U I think I've ever seen in a television show.
Yes it was answered. But the way they built that up? Come on. Can you really be satisfied with that? If they go back and remove the entire "cursed" storyline then it's much more acceptable. As it stands, it was ridiculous to spend any amount of time on them outside of the equation and the candidate numbers. That's it. They gave them far too much importance.
By the way, let's look at Lindelhof's comments:
LINK
He may be right (we were already deep in by this point), but this is also incredibly offensive because the entire show is built around these mystery points. If the numbers weren't important, why make them so?
I'm not watching the show to "figure out what the numbers mean," but they made a premier and a first three seasons based on the premise of "Where are we?" So in fact I AM looking for clues to the answer to that question so the writers should be careful about what they deem important. To write those numbers in as a mystery, to give them power and then to say "Eh, if you're watching to find out what those mean, you'll be disappointed" is almost cruel.
The answer to a question in the show should be relative to the importance of the subject of that question. If the numbers weren't important they either 1) Should have never been in the show in the first place since they add nothing 2) Actually be important
But they faked importance. That's the problem.
Either that, or once they saw people getting theories close to what they were doing they started to....write ahead of the audience to not let them figure out. Which was exactly the problem I saw with the narrative. I think the numbers were important at one point, I think Lindelhof is lying, and I think he was naive to the intelligence of a motivated group of people to pick apart the story. That's why some of these things were a sham and why the ending doesn't resonate with some people.
Writing 101: Everything you decide to put into your story should have purpose otherwise you are wasting the time of your reader/audience.
Here we go... I do apologize in advance: quote:
People who let the "mysteries" bother them and demanded answers to everything were never gonna be satisfied, no matter how the show ended. Also, most of the time people yelling about "We never got any answers!!11!1!" are ignoring the fact that almost everything was answered; they just didn't like what the answers were. There's a huge difference there.
First, I don't think people want every single answer explicitly stated. That's not the point. (And anyways, we basically saw everyone go off into the afterlife, that's about as complete as you can get.)
Second, the difference is not between whether they did or did not like the answer, the difference is in whether or not the answers actually served the narrative or the contemplation of the narrative well. Most of the time, they didn't. THAT'S why people have a problem with them.
At least for me, I'm not demanding answers, but I am demanding not to go on a pointless thought exercise. The Numbers for one. That was the biggest F U I think I've ever seen in a television show.
Yes it was answered. But the way they built that up? Come on. Can you really be satisfied with that? If they go back and remove the entire "cursed" storyline then it's much more acceptable. As it stands, it was ridiculous to spend any amount of time on them outside of the equation and the candidate numbers. That's it. They gave them far too much importance.
By the way, let's look at Lindelhof's comments:
LINK
quote:
Damon Lindelof did make a comment at Comic Con in 2005 that "We may never know what the Numbers mean."
quote:
There are some questions that are very engaging and interesting, and then there are other questions that we have no interest whatsoever in answering. We call it the midi-chlorian debate, because at a certain point, explaining something mystical demystifies it. To try and have a character come and say, "Here is what the numbers mean," actually makes every usage of the numbers up to that point less interesting.
You can actually watch Star Wars now, and when Obi-Wan talks about the Force to Luke for the first time, it loses its luster because the Force has been explained as, sort of, little biological agents that are in your blood stream. So you go, "Oh, I liked Obi-Wan's version a lot better." Which in the case of our show is, "The numbers are bad luck, they keep popping up in Hurley's life, they appear on the island." ... But if you're watching the show for a detailed explanation of what the numbers mean—and I'm not saying you won't see more of them—then you will be disappointed by the end of season six.
He may be right (we were already deep in by this point), but this is also incredibly offensive because the entire show is built around these mystery points. If the numbers weren't important, why make them so?
I'm not watching the show to "figure out what the numbers mean," but they made a premier and a first three seasons based on the premise of "Where are we?" So in fact I AM looking for clues to the answer to that question so the writers should be careful about what they deem important. To write those numbers in as a mystery, to give them power and then to say "Eh, if you're watching to find out what those mean, you'll be disappointed" is almost cruel.
The answer to a question in the show should be relative to the importance of the subject of that question. If the numbers weren't important they either 1) Should have never been in the show in the first place since they add nothing 2) Actually be important
But they faked importance. That's the problem.
Either that, or once they saw people getting theories close to what they were doing they started to....write ahead of the audience to not let them figure out. Which was exactly the problem I saw with the narrative. I think the numbers were important at one point, I think Lindelhof is lying, and I think he was naive to the intelligence of a motivated group of people to pick apart the story. That's why some of these things were a sham and why the ending doesn't resonate with some people.
Writing 101: Everything you decide to put into your story should have purpose otherwise you are wasting the time of your reader/audience.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 7/24/14 at 12:41 pm to Snatchy
I'll answer these to the best of my remembrance, but others feel free to help out or correct me.
There wasn't much significance to them.
Women couldn't carry babies to term on the island. I believe because of the incident.
I don't even remember that.
The numbers were to reset the hatch to keep the energy contained on the island.
He just connected with the island. Same way Desmond was special with the island. Locke as well (like it healing his handicap). Etc.
Desmond was special and connected with the island, and he could withstand the energy (which is why Whidmore was doing the tests on him in that shack thing). Desmond was also the failsafe that could be used to control/destroy the island if need be. That's why in the end, Desmond went down into the island's core to remove the plug...and Jack went down to save him, and that's why it killed Jack.
It was basically a game of chess with MiB/SM...some he killed (some after "testing" them, some not), and some he just fricked with. And some he used to manipulate things to make certain things happen (like Jacob being killed).
Also, with Eko, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was apparently a giant a-hole on the set, so his character was killed off, IIRC. That's also one reason he wasn't in the finale, both that and because he demanded too much money to come back.
What was Widmore's deal? That's not really a fair or good question. And that's one problem with people with Lost...their questions aren't really legit questions; they're more just "what's up with that?" kind of questions.
I don't remember...I'll defer to someone else on that one.
quote:
What was the significance of the Egyptian hieroglyphics? Specifically the ones that the Dharma initiative built into the computer countdown in the Swann?
There wasn't much significance to them.
quote:
What was the significance of pregnancy and babies?
Women couldn't carry babies to term on the island. I believe because of the incident.
quote:
Why did Jacob write in hieroglyphics?
I don't even remember that.
quote:
What was the purpose of the numbers?
The numbers were to reset the hatch to keep the energy contained on the island.
quote:
What was up with Walt? Why was he special?
He just connected with the island. Same way Desmond was special with the island. Locke as well (like it healing his handicap). Etc.
quote:
What was Desmond's sacrifice?
Desmond was special and connected with the island, and he could withstand the energy (which is why Whidmore was doing the tests on him in that shack thing). Desmond was also the failsafe that could be used to control/destroy the island if need be. That's why in the end, Desmond went down into the island's core to remove the plug...and Jack went down to save him, and that's why it killed Jack.
quote:
What were the rules? Why did the smoke kill some and not others? Mr. Eko?
It was basically a game of chess with MiB/SM...some he killed (some after "testing" them, some not), and some he just fricked with. And some he used to manipulate things to make certain things happen (like Jacob being killed).
Also, with Eko, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was apparently a giant a-hole on the set, so his character was killed off, IIRC. That's also one reason he wasn't in the finale, both that and because he demanded too much money to come back.
quote:
What was Widmore's deal? Why did he want candidates, but tried to kill them all?
What was Widmore's deal? That's not really a fair or good question. And that's one problem with people with Lost...their questions aren't really legit questions; they're more just "what's up with that?" kind of questions.
quote:
Who was the woman that killed Jacobs mother? Where did she come from? Why was she against evil men when she committed worse atrocities?
I don't remember...I'll defer to someone else on that one.
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