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re: The Hispanic electorate is an enigma for conservative politicians.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:22 am to a want
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:22 am to a want
quote:
you're saying minorities are just too stupid (or irrational or emotional) to vote republican
where did i say i wanted people to vote republican?
and yes, emotional thinking is bad, especially when making political decisions. it should be demonized, and i try to do just that
quote:
in the same thread wondering aloud why Hispanics won't vote for republicans.
again
if they were rational, they would see that the criticisms are against illegal immigrants and not legal citizens. those arguments wouldn't apply to them and should have no effect. also, they have to rationally understand that it's a major risk to allow a flood of people who will eat up public services (and they will either have to pay more, or if they're on public service, possibly go without). those are all rational arguments
i'm pro-immigration...only if public services are cut off (in an ideal world we'd have open borders and no nanny state)
until we reign in the public services, i can't support an open border. it is an economic nightmare, especially long-term
if people want to warp that into an anti-latino statement, they're not only being intellectually dishonest, they're thinking emotionally
2
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
anti-illegal immigrant
well that might be the actual stance.. it often comes off as anti-immigration and mainly anti- hispanic.
when the party is actively trying to harass hispanic and lawmakers are quoted saying he will shoot them to protect the borders and the kids who showed up at the border the gop wants to treat lower than dogs.. etc. it all adds up to sound very anti-hispanic.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
why are these arguments always slanted against the GOP? why don't we bring up the DEM-supporting groups who are anti-immigrant?
Framing of it in the media. As a whole, the conservatives are depicted as "owning" the anti-illegal immigration issue, while the Dems are depicted as either the kowtowing yes men or the "reasonable" party in favor of compromise (depending on whether Dems or Reps are in the majority at the time).
In short, if the GOP wants to attract Hispanic voters they have got to do something about the media discourse surrounding this issue.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:24 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I think he is making the argument that why would hispanics support a party whose constituents often ostracize, demonize, and insult them. I
so we should reward/celebrate bad decision making and/or illegal behavior?
we either celebrate bad decision making/thinking or we ostracize/demonize it. i'm fine with admitting i am perfectly fine with criticizing bad decision making and emotional-irrational thinking. this doesn't apply to race, creed, gender, age, or any other specific human trait. it only applies to the behavior at issue.
and, like i just said, if somebody wants to turn that into a statement against ANY group, they're being intellectually dishonest and/or emotional in coming to that conclusion. it's a straw man
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:26 am to petar
quote:
it often comes off as anti-immigration and mainly anti- hispanic.
i mean we have a major problem with people below us coming here illegally. they happen to be considered latino or hispanic
criticizing the illegal immigrant problem really SHOULD have nothing to do with race/ethnicity (although admittedly, racism does exist in this arena, but it pales in comparison). if there is a mass exodus of boats of asian or white, eatern european refugees hitting our shores, the response would be the same
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and yes, emotional thinking is bad, especially when making political decisions
All political preferences are formed through both cognitive and affective processing of political and social information.
Of course, there is variation between individuals in terms of the extent to which somebody emphases the cognitive over the affective. However, everybody uses both processes.
And I do mean everybody, even you.
ETA: Not trying to give a lecture though.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 11:30 am
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:28 am to TxTiger82
quote:
Framing of it in the media.
oh yeah
quote:
if the GOP wants to attract Hispanic voters they have got to do something about the media discourse surrounding this issue.
that will take conservative media
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:28 am to GumboPot
quote:
I mean, these guys are running from problems in their country where the root cause behind said problems is big government.
Define "big" government here.
I don't think "big" government is the problem in El Salvador and Honduras so much as ineffective government or poor governance are.
And, guess what, people who are poor are more inclined to support things like public schools and Obamacare. This shouldn't shock you.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that will take conservative media
Which exist.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:29 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Yea I have no clue why Hispanics don't want to associate with the GOP.
His statement wasn't about Hispanics it was about poor, uneducated Hispanics. He's right. It takes some level of understanding of economics to get that bigger government and getting government handouts may not be in your long term best interest. Or the country you're migrating to's. Real talk. No need for political correctness here.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:29 am to maine82
quote:
I know a business owner who owns an industrial site that said all the white and black people who apply for jobs leave after the first day, but the Hispanics work their butts off.
That's the thing...we know Hispanics generally come from a culture full of hard working people. Why wouldn't they want to keep more of that hard earned labor? The Democrats can't offer that. Only the right side of the aisle offers workers to keep more of their hard earned labor.
Apparently Hispanic immigrants do not realize this.
On another note, we might actually be in the midst of Hispanic electorate trending toward Democrats for one reason and one reason only, BHO. The GOP could flip this trend IMO, with a Hispanic Spanish speaking candidate. I bet Rubio or Cruz could get better Hispanic numbers than GWB. And if so, a Rubio or Cruz could easily take the WH. It's probably that simple, just nominate the right damn candidate. Occam's razor
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
those arguments wouldn't apply to them and should have no effect.
They do though.
Like the arizona ID law. Like the Kids getting demonized and the American Citizens taking them in getting demonized for taking in relative kids.
Plus the general anti-illegal immigration stance takes a toll. Its not uncommon for groups to ban together when people are talking shite about their nationality, heritage, relatives. The Irish catholics did it, the german americans have done it, the african americans have done it. etc. And now we are seeing the Hispanic Americans do it.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:31 am to TxTiger82
quote:
Which exist.
but is demonized by the liberal media that still dominates. in a few decades i'm curious to see what emerges, b/c the traditional media is going to keep declining (and so will the concentration of liberal bias). brave new world
the biggest problem that "conservative" media has is legitimization. when news becomes more decentralized, i'm curious how the public is going to treat the legitimization of all media. it may make things more balanced...it may lead to a larger problem for "conservative" media
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:31 am to TxTiger82
quote:
Which exist.
but is demonized by the liberal media that still dominates. in a few decades i'm curious to see what emerges, b/c the traditional media is going to keep declining (and so will the concentration of liberal bias). brave new world
the biggest problem that "conservative" media has is legitimization. when news becomes more decentralized, i'm curious how the public is going to treat the legitimization of all media. it may make things more balanced...it may lead to a larger problem for "conservative" media
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:32 am to SlowFlowPro
Interesting thoughts. You may be right.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:34 am to petar
quote:
They do though.
and that's irrational, possibly emotional (grouping self identification by racial designation or culture)
quote:
Plus the general anti-illegal immigration stance takes a toll. Its not uncommon for groups to ban together when people are talking shite about their nationality, heritage, relatives. The Irish catholics did it, the german americans have done it, the african americans have done it. etc. And now we are seeing the Hispanic Americans do it.
i wouldn't be that shocked to discover all of these groups lean towards the DEM
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
criticizing the illegal immigrant problem really SHOULD have nothing to do with race/ethnicity (although admittedly, racism does exist in this arena, but it pales in comparison). if there is a mass exodus of boats of asian or white, eatern european refugees hitting our shores, the response would be the same
Of course not... like anti-terrorism should not come off as anti-muslim. But it certainly does. Some of it is the GOP playing to the uneducated voter. But some of it is the Arizona laws, the uncompassonate approach to the illegal kids, BUT most all of it is the loud talking heads and/or politicians that cross the line. They dehumanize these people. Treat them as if they are rodents coming to dig in our trash or something.
Don't dehumanize and don't make the argument emotional as many of the talking heads do.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:40 am to TxTiger82
there is going to be mass segregation, though
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:42 am to petar
quote:
Some of it is the GOP playing to the uneducated voter.
that's emotional-irrational bullshite, too
again, i'm not a GOPer
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and that's irrational, possibly emotional
No it is not. The arizona id act directly affected them in tangible way. This was passed by a conservative repulbican state government. This was lauded as a good thing by conservative politicians and talking heads. This was hated on by democrats and democratic groups.
This is a non-emotional reason why hispanic Americans would be justified in thinking that the GOP is biased against them. would it not?
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