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Message
re: BSS Podcast
Posted on 7/21/14 at 11:49 am to TheJruth
Posted on 7/21/14 at 11:49 am to TheJruth
quote:
I see his value on the team but I think it could be replaced.
Sure. It could be replaced, poorly, but you could roll Babbitt out there. Anderson is a premier stretch 4 in the NBA and his volume and accuracy from 3 is similar to a guy like Klay Thompson. As a 6'10" PF. What he does is incredibly rare in the history of the league. He's a one way player, but he is among the best offensive players in the NBA.
On top of that, the team has shown little ability to create 3s when Anderson isn't playing. They have had guys who could shoot, they just didn't really generate many looks for them. If you want to open spacing for Davis et al, then the team has to show a very different approach than what we've seen the last 4 years.
quote:
Reke - Jimmer - Salmons - Babbitt - Ajinca/Young
Why do you hate Tyreke?
0
Posted on 7/21/14 at 11:51 am to TheJruth
quote:
To me his central value is spacing, there are other options that can provide that at the 4
The only other 4 in the NBA that provides the spacing that he does is Kevin Love. Beyond that, you can argue for Bonner and David Lee to a much lesser extent, but they are far more limited.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 11:55 am to TheJruth
quote:Name a better one...
I see his value on the team but I think it could be replaced. To me his central value is spacing, there are other options that can provide that at the 4.
quote:You're talking about trading him. So his value around the league is way more important than what you perceive his value to the Pelicans to be. I'm positive his value around the league is much higher than a bench SF.
If we needed a legit 4, then he would have a lot more value.
quote:And you're dumping one of the best spacers in the league for a role player at SF.
If we needed a legit 4, then he would have a lot more value. We don't, we need a spacer
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 11:58 am
Posted on 7/21/14 at 11:57 am to TheJruth
quote:
If Memphis offered Q-Pon and a first round draft pick for Ryno
QPon + 1st rounder is different than QPon. I still wouldn't do it but I wouldn't think you were insane, you at least traded a B for 2 Cs instead of a B for a C.
quote:
In contrast how much better does the starting five look with: Jrue - EG - Q-Pon/Snell - AD - Asik.
Or we could wait a year and fill the SF spot with either Gordon's cap space or the MLE and still have Ryno too.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:05 pm to eyeran
quote:
Name a better one...
Three guys shot better for 3pt land then him last year and 4 more guys were within 2% pts... and none of those guys are named Kevin Love.
quote:
Why do you hate Tyreke
I don't. Guess who is going to be playing the SF spot for significant minutes every night as the roster currently stands. Take another guess about who really does not want to play the SF spot and who performs markedly better when he is playing the 1 or 2.
quote:
And you're dumping one of the best spacers in the league for a role player at SF.
Yes because that "best spacer in the league" will be playing on the bench. The equation is how valuable is a 30 min 3&D guy to the starting line up versus spacing on the bench and for 10-15 mins a game with the starters. No kidding Babbitt, Novak, Matt Bonner are all worse options but they provide space. Its not like a guy who shoots 40% from 3pt land get respect while the guy who shoots 39% is hedged every play. lol.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:16 pm to TheJruth
quote:
Guess who is going to be playing the SF spot for significant minutes every night as the roster currently stands. Take another guess about who really does not want to play the SF spot and who performs markedly better when he is playing the 1 or 2
As long as Evans is handling the ball on offense when he is on the court, I could care less what position he plays. It just doesn't matter.
That's why playing him with Jimmer/Rivers makes much more sense. Those guys can't create (and you shouldn't want them creating) but they can spot up and shoot. Also why playing him with Holiday AND Gordon should probably be somewhat limited.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:18 pm to corndeaux
They'd also be playing him with ryno too.
Ryno is worth more to us imo than a meh draft pick and a mediocre SF.
Ryno/AD/Asik is too good and versatile of a frontcourt.
Ryno is worth more to us imo than a meh draft pick and a mediocre SF.
Ryno/AD/Asik is too good and versatile of a frontcourt.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:20 pm to corndeaux
Apparently, according to the Kings guy who was on BSS, Jimmer is actually a fairly good creator and a not so good spot up shooter. Matches what I saw in his college career. I'll admit, I basically haven't seen play in the NBA outside Pels v. Kings games. I do remember one game he got really hot against us last year and being impressed with his handles.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:26 pm to TheJruth
quote:And my questions remains. Name a better one... Those 3 you alluded to are not better than Anderson.
Three guys shot better for 3pt land then him last year and 4 more guys were within 2% pts...
quote:Who cares whether or not he starts? He played the most minutes per game on the team last year.
Yes because that "best spacer in the league" will be playing on the bench.
quote:Sure, if that SF was actually really good. Or a 3 and D guy. Or even in the neighborhood of Anderson's value. The guys you're talking about are borderline scrubs. Tony Snell? The 32% 3 point shooter? QPon is a little better. But QPon? For Anderson? Come one. Those teams would have Anderson on a plane to their city before Dell could hang up the phone if he offered them those deals.
The equation is how valuable is a 30 min 3&D guy to the starting line up versus spacing on the bench and for 10-15 mins a game with the starters.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:36 pm to eyeran
Snell shot 50% from down-town in summer league. Definitely won't shoot that high in the NBA but he is certainly a capable shooter. His rookie percentages are more likely a product of being on the Bulls.
That is my entire point. Ryan Anderson is over valued IMO. I ship him off for a legit starter at the 3 spot and a draft pick. I think that is what he is actually worth. It's not like any actual rumored offers have shown that other GM's value him as much as people on this board seem to think. Asik was the best piece we could get for him last year and Asik ended up being work a mid-tier draft pick to Houston. It insinuates that Ryno is valued somewhat more than a Mid-tier draft pick.
That is my entire point. Ryan Anderson is over valued IMO. I ship him off for a legit starter at the 3 spot and a draft pick. I think that is what he is actually worth. It's not like any actual rumored offers have shown that other GM's value him as much as people on this board seem to think. Asik was the best piece we could get for him last year and Asik ended up being work a mid-tier draft pick to Houston. It insinuates that Ryno is valued somewhat more than a Mid-tier draft pick.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:38 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Or we could wait a year and fill the SF spot with either Gordon's cap space or the MLE and still have Ryno too.
This. Building a winner doesn't happen in a year or two. What else doesn't build a winner? Trading away an offensive game changer. You need the right trade to make it happen. You don't settle for anything less.
Keep Ryno, build with him for now.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:39 pm to TheJruth
quote:
It insinuates that Ryno is valued somewhat more than a Mid-tier draft pick.
Yeah if other teams know we're forced to trade him to make room for better fitting players and we have him on the trade block so long he has "Price Reduced for Quick Sale" stamped on his forehead.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 12:49 pm to TheJruth
quote:Sure. But thats not the example you gave. You were trading Anderson for Tony Snell or Quincy Pondexter. Huge downgrades in talent and not starters.
That is my entire point. Ryan Anderson is over valued IMO. I ship him off for a legit starter at the 3 spot and a draft pick. I think that is what he is actually worth
Im not against trading Anderson for a legit SF. A legit SF though. Not a guy who needs his summer league numbers cited. Or a guy averaging 5ppg for his career.
quote:Because its really unlikely we've actually shopped him. Other rumored offers have come from other teams' fanbases more often than not. Can anybody point to an actual "insider" reporting on what other teams have offered for Anderson?
It's not like any actual rumored offers have shown that other GM's value him as much as people on this board seem to think
quote:Asik was a totally different situation.
Asik was the best piece we could get for him last year and Asik ended up being work a mid-tier draft pick to Houston. It insinuates that Ryno is valued somewhat more than a Mid-tier draft pick.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 1:00 pm to TheJruth
quote:
Asik was the best piece we could get for him last year and Asik ended up being work a mid-tier draft pick to Houston
Says who? We never shopped him or heard any rumors about offers. We clearly wanted Asik, but wouldn't give up Anderson for him. Thus the only thing you can glean is that our FO absolutely values Anderson more than a mid-1st.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 1:02 pm to TheJruth
quote:
I really think our fan base and maybe the Pels organization are over-valuing Ryan Anderson. Sell high - buy low. That is rule number one.
This offseason is not the time to sell Ryno then, because he is coming off of injury. Once he goes out there and plays the same as last year early this season, his stock will then be at an all-time high.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 2:18 pm to Jwho77
Some of this is crazy talk. Ryno is not your prototypical stretch 4. He can get the shot off over smaller defenders in his face, has a wicked step back, and a crazy quick release. Most bigs that can shoot the 3 don't possess anything near what Ryno brings to the table skill wise.
Green + 1st from PHX is the starting point. I'd be pissed with anything below that.
Green + 1st from PHX is the starting point. I'd be pissed with anything below that.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 2:49 pm to ShamelessPel
What I don't get is why shop him at all? He's not the only way to get a legit SF. In the next two years we'll be able to deal Gordon and get a real SF without dealing Anderson. Why rush it here?
And this is coming from someone who's all-in for win-now. I'm 100% bought in. I love our core right now and I think we'll be a force in the NBA very soon. But there is such a thing as going too fast, and dealing one of the best 6th men in the NBA, and a crucial component of one of the best 3-man big rotations in the NBA, for a legit SF that we could get later once we shed Gordon is going too fast.
And this is coming from someone who's all-in for win-now. I'm 100% bought in. I love our core right now and I think we'll be a force in the NBA very soon. But there is such a thing as going too fast, and dealing one of the best 6th men in the NBA, and a crucial component of one of the best 3-man big rotations in the NBA, for a legit SF that we could get later once we shed Gordon is going too fast.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 3:42 pm to lsutothetop
quote:
What I don't get is why shop him at all? He's not the only way to get a legit SF. In the next two years we'll be able to deal Gordon and get a real SF without dealing Anderson. Why rush it here?
Well I tend to agree with you. I'm also 100% bought in. I like the make up of the roster. I am much higher on Demps than most around here and much lower on Monty than some around here. I just don't see how you can justify not giving up a 6th man type for a playoff caliber starting SF to round out your starting lineup. If I'm Dell, I don't want to move him, but I will if the right person is on the other end of the line. I personally think that is the exact approach Dell is taking. For Ryno's name to constantly be coming up, there has to be some legitimacy to his being available.
One more thing. I'm petrified of neck and back issues. His rehab must be going well to be so talked about at least. However, if you get equal value (and remove the health risk), that should be something to consider as well.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 3:53 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
I just don't see how you can justify not giving up a 6th man type for a playoff caliber starting SF
The problem is using arbitrary terms like "legit SF" or "playoff caliber starting SF." What do those even mean? What players are we actually talking about? There just isn't much depth of good SFs in the league right now.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:10 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
The problem is using arbitrary terms like "legit SF" or "playoff caliber starting SF." What do those even mean? What players are we actually talking about? There just isn't much depth of good SFs in the league right now.
As in, someone who can guard the 3 and contribute next to Anthony Davis while we are in the playoffs. Not someone who we need to find ways to fit square pegs into round holes to get on the floor.
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