- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Defending the Holiday Trade
Posted on 7/6/14 at 1:59 pm to Dead Mike
Posted on 7/6/14 at 1:59 pm to Dead Mike
quote:
Every time I see someone use "All-Star caliber" to make a case for Holiday, I have to laugh. Missing a huge fricking asterisk on that statement.
Fans overvalue their players, i understand that. Holiday and Evans are good players, but Pels fans hold them in higher regard than they should be. I have yet to see any unbiased national pundit classify those guys the way our fans do.
Only our fans or bloggers would make a case that they aren't overpaid or that the Holiday deal will not be a negative impact move for our organization
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 2:00 pm
3
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:02 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:I agree
, but Pels fans hold them in higher regard than they should be.
quote:to be fair though nobody but fans of the team watch the pels
I have yet to see any unbiased national pundit classify those guys the way our fans do.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:10 pm to Fearthehat0307
Well they all think Davis is the next big thing and that Gordon is a huge organizational leech
They just also think the Holiday deal wasn't good for us and Evans makes more than he should
They just also think the Holiday deal wasn't good for us and Evans makes more than he should
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:15 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Only our fans or bloggers would make a case that they aren't overpaid
Tyreke was a poached RFA so almost by definition he's overpaid unless he improves more than expected. Holiday on the other hand signed an extension at a time when several other PGs in the same tier signed what are considered team friendly extensions because of the uncertainty created by shifting to the new CBA. I think it's hard to argue that Holiday is overpaid.
quote:
will not be a negative impact move for our organization
Fit is more important that talent in many cases, see Spurs. I think it's too early too conclude that the Holiday trade is a guaranteed negative, especially if the team would have reached for need and drafted a Burke or MCW.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:24 pm to TigerinATL
Holiday is overpaid in a sense of what it cost to acquire him plus his contract
Evans was indeed an RFA, so it was going to cost for him. He really goes back to what you just mentioned --> fit. If he was slightly overpaid at a position of need, I don't think anyone would complain. He's slightly overpaid in a crowded, ball dominant backcourt, though. I think that is what brings the criticism.
Of course this is only a problem if this team bombs next season. If it ends up working, people will eat their words. But it's going to take a lot of winning to keep people from questioning the moves
Evans was indeed an RFA, so it was going to cost for him. He really goes back to what you just mentioned --> fit. If he was slightly overpaid at a position of need, I don't think anyone would complain. He's slightly overpaid in a crowded, ball dominant backcourt, though. I think that is what brings the criticism.
Of course this is only a problem if this team bombs next season. If it ends up working, people will eat their words. But it's going to take a lot of winning to keep people from questioning the moves
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:38 pm to GynoSandberg
You know what's going to be strange next season? A. Davis is going to be the best player on the team, an all star and probably up for numerous post season awards (DPOY, all NBA, etc.).. but he is going to be the 6th highest paid guy on a team that is hoping to be the 7th or 8th seed in the West. I just don't get how that is right..
Posted on 7/6/14 at 2:52 pm to brmark70816
quote:not really strange at all. he is on a rookie contract the others aren't
You know what's going to be strange next season? A. Davis is going to be the best player on the team, an all star and probably up for numerous post season awards (DPOY, all NBA, etc.).. but he is going to be the 6th highest paid guy on a team that is hoping to be the 7th or 8th seed in the West. I just don't get how that is right..
Posted on 7/6/14 at 3:06 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Only our fans or bloggers would make a case that they aren't overpaid or that the Holiday deal will not be a negative impact move for our organization
Nah, man. You just don't get it. Lowe and Ziller and Moore and their ilk, they just HATE the Pelicans and want to criticize any move they make.
What's funny is that most reasonable league observers said they liked the talent. They had questions about the price and the fit, but most were cautiously optimistic that it could work. Many had the Pels as a League Pass team. Some of that maybe was basketball junkie curiosity, but fever dreams of an uptempo style with Davis fueling everything are still quite tempting.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 6:15 pm to corndeaux
quote:
They just also think the Holiday deal wasn't good for us and Evans makes more than he should
Spot on
Posted on 7/6/14 at 7:22 pm to VOR
I don't find that it's hard to defend. It was a smart trade (proven commodity for pretty big uncertainty). Holiday broke his leg, which was a bummer, but is still a very good PG to have.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 7:56 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Holiday is overpaid in a sense of what it cost to acquire him plus his contract
Evans was indeed an RFA, so it was going to cost for him. He really goes back to what you just mentioned --> fit. If he was slightly overpaid at a position of need, I don't think anyone would complain. He's slightly overpaid in a crowded, ball dominant backcourt, though. I think that is what brings the criticism.
Holiday and Evans, arguably, are overpaid. That happens when you're trying to jump start a franchise. Neither is necessarily crippling, however, in the long term, especially if they are able to unload Gordon. And if they win next season and make even the 8th seed, everybody will be fine with the deal.
Again, for the record, I was not enamored with the draft that year and Noel if a fricking crapshoot. The Pelicans wouldn't have drafted him anyway.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 8:36 pm to VOR
I agree.
But Tyreke's contract wouldn't have been such a hot button topic if he would have been used the right way thruout the entire season, not just the last 20 games or so.
Moving forward to this season, I pray to God he doesn't come off the bench again. And I don't want him playing the 3. He excels with the ball in his hands. He's a matchup nightmare. I understand that Jrue is the point, but I would play them both as the 1a/1b, 2a/2b interchangeably.
But Tyreke's contract wouldn't have been such a hot button topic if he would have been used the right way thruout the entire season, not just the last 20 games or so.
Moving forward to this season, I pray to God he doesn't come off the bench again. And I don't want him playing the 3. He excels with the ball in his hands. He's a matchup nightmare. I understand that Jrue is the point, but I would play them both as the 1a/1b, 2a/2b interchangeably.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 8:38 pm to Gtothemoney
quote:
Moving forward to this season, I pray to God he doesn't come off the bench again. And I don't want him playing the 3.
Like I said in another thread, call me crazy but I think we need a 3.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 8:42 pm to VOR
Not him doe.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 8:43 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:00 pm to Gtothemoney
quote:
I pray to God he doesn't come off the bench again. And I don't want him playing the 3
Neither one of these things would kill me. If he's playing the 3 off the bench, he's playing next to Rivers (maybe) or Russ Smith. He should be playing point forward.
What would kill me is 25MPG again. Or playing him with 2 offensive black holes. Or having him stand in the corner while someone else dribbles for 15 seconds.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:06 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Neither one of these things would kill me. If he's playing the 3 off the bench, he's playing next to Rivers (maybe) or Russ Smith. He should be playing point forward.
Thanks for making this point. So many people are caught up with the positions. Moreso than Monty, even. *Gasp* Monty clearly allowed him to take over the offense at the end of the season. When I say he can play the 3, I really just mean he can defend the 3 in second units. That allows him to run the offense with 2 smaller guards that can knock down shots off of his drives.
With Evans on the roster, you need to find a way to keep Anderson around.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:14 pm to corndeaux
]
Well we watched how that experiment unfolded last season.
And we saw how that experiment unfolded too.
I'll take the latter.
Can a lineup of Asik, AD, and Ryan ever be on the court on the same time? Specially with the game on the line?
quote:
Neither one of these things would kill me. If he's playing the 3 off the bench, he's playing next to Rivers (maybe) or Russ Smith.
Well we watched how that experiment unfolded last season.
quote:
quote: *Gasp* Monty clearly allowed him to take over the offense at the end of the season.
And we saw how that experiment unfolded too.
I'll take the latter.
quote:
With Evans on the roster, you need to find a way to keep Anderson around.
Can a lineup of Asik, AD, and Ryan ever be on the court on the same time? Specially with the game on the line?
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:16 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
When I say he can play the 3, I really just mean he can defend the 3 in second units
Yeah. The positional designations make much more sense on defense than offense. The Pelicans really shouldn't have a lead "PG" with Holiday, Evans, and Gordon all capable of creating. And out of all of them, Holiday is probably the one that would do best as an off ball, spot up guy.
quote:
With Evans on the roster, you need to find a way to keep Anderson around
Amen.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:18 pm to Gtothemoney
quote:
Well we watched how that experiment unfolded last season.
And we saw how that experiment unfolded too.
I'll take the latter.
I'm with you. Not a lot of faith in Monty loosening up. But maybe he does if the team stays healthy? It's about all I got at this point. quote:
Can a lineup of Asik, AD, and Ryan ever be on the court on the same time? Specially with the game on the line?
I don't think so. Maybe situationally, but I'm not sure what situation you would need both Asik and Anderson.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:18 pm to corndeaux
Remember, you poo poo'd my idea of letting AD creating in space last season. 
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News