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re: Why is this organization digging themselves in such a deep hole?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
And what people seem to forget is you just can't tank for 3 years and actually make the most out of that. For one, the chances of all 3 of those picks being stars is almost 0.
Secondly, by the time all three have a year or two under their belt and are playing well, their rookie contracts are up and you can't afford them. See Oklahoma City. They have have the best luck in drafts in the last ten years yet they couldn't afford all their top players for more than a few years.
When you land a talent like Davis, you immediately build around him so by time he hits his prime, you have enough to make a run.
Secondly, by the time all three have a year or two under their belt and are playing well, their rookie contracts are up and you can't afford them. See Oklahoma City. They have have the best luck in drafts in the last ten years yet they couldn't afford all their top players for more than a few years.
When you land a talent like Davis, you immediately build around him so by time he hits his prime, you have enough to make a run.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 2:37 pm
0
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:38 pm to Rico Tubbs
quote:Oladipo
Name 5 key contributors from the 2013 draft class
MCW
Steven Adams
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Gorgui Dieng
what do I win?
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:39 pm to Tiger Nation 84
The Spurs had one player on a first round contract this past season. Dell has proven he can find these cheap players that hep control costs without first round picks. Brian Roberts, Morrow, Ayon, Ajinca.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:39 pm to danman6336
quote:
But you just told me we needed to wait and see how they play together?
Wouldn't that apply to the Sixers too?
So we have to wait and see if our team is good because they haven't played together, but the Sixers is shite, even though you haven't seem them play together.
huh...
Our team has legit pieces that haven't played together.
Philly is openly tanking. There is a difference.
But let's wait and see how they do as well. I'll bet I can accurately predict them: they will suck.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:42 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:We shall see
But let's wait and see how they do as well. I'll bet I can accurately predict them: they will suck.
There are probably people out there thinking a team with Noel, MCW, Embiid, Saric, Wroten, Thad Young, a shitload of cap room and about 15 other draft picks is a pretty desirable set up for the future
Compared to a team with one proven star, a couple of solid but sub-all star caliber players, and zero cap room and zero draft picks
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:42 pm to danman6336
quote:
Gorgui Dieng
That's a reach. Averaged 4.8 Pts and 5 rebounds.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:43 pm to Tiger Nation 84
last years contributors would have been
vasquez
gordon
lopez
davis
aminu
anderson
smith
rivers
roberts
that team easily would have been in the lottery
coming back this year, everyone above plus noel and a lottery pick. assuming they drafted a point guard and cashed assets for a SF, i agree with you thatthe team would be in a better place. evans was an unnecessary signing, and holiday was not worth 2 lottery picks
water under the bridge now...
vasquez
gordon
lopez
davis
aminu
anderson
smith
rivers
roberts
that team easily would have been in the lottery
coming back this year, everyone above plus noel and a lottery pick. assuming they drafted a point guard and cashed assets for a SF, i agree with you thatthe team would be in a better place. evans was an unnecessary signing, and holiday was not worth 2 lottery picks
water under the bridge now...
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:43 pm to danman6336
7pts and 4 rebounds (Giannis Antetokounmpo)
5pts and 5 rebounds(Gorgui Dieng)
3pts 4 reounds (Steven Adams)
Try again...Jrue avg. more points than all of those players combined.
5pts and 5 rebounds(Gorgui Dieng)
3pts 4 reounds (Steven Adams)
Try again...Jrue avg. more points than all of those players combined.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:46 pm to Aced
quote:Which is like 13/13 per 36
That's a reach. Averaged 4.8 Pts and 5 rebounds.
Check out his numbers when he hit the starting lineup. He was cranking out double doubles like it was going out of style.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:47 pm to cgrand
quote:
holiday was not worth 2 lottery picks
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:48 pm to Rico Tubbs
quote:How do you define "contributor"? You asked for players that contributed. I gave them to you. Do they have to put up 15/5 to contribute?
Try again...Jrue avg. more points than all of those players combined.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:54 pm to danman6336
This debate is pointless right now. The people who think "Top 3 pick" and "15% chance at a Top 3 pick" are synonymous will never agree with the current build philosophy because they are living in a dreamland where 15% = 100%. For those who disagree with the current direction but are capable of discussing this reasonably, you have to at least wait and see the rest of the moves that get made in the next 2 weeks. Trading for Asik changes the equation dramatically, and if they fill the SF hole with a competent role player, then the biggest complaints about the current build philosophy, that it created an imbalanced roster, will have been addressed.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:55 pm to danman6336
RE: How do you define "contributor"? You asked for players that contributed. I gave them to you. Do they have to put up 15/5 to contribute?
Key contributor being someone that you can rely on to get you a win in a meaningful game. The first two you mentioned are the only ones that you can label "key", they have the potential to be all-stars in the immediate future. I wish we would have drafted MCW, that is the only player from last years draft that I would take over Jrue. Noel has ZERO game on offense and has a slight frame that I really don't think will last. Next years draft is nothing special, especially if we are drafting in the teens (pick has protection) so getting a guy like Asik huge in replace of a backup rookie at best.
Key contributor being someone that you can rely on to get you a win in a meaningful game. The first two you mentioned are the only ones that you can label "key", they have the potential to be all-stars in the immediate future. I wish we would have drafted MCW, that is the only player from last years draft that I would take over Jrue. Noel has ZERO game on offense and has a slight frame that I really don't think will last. Next years draft is nothing special, especially if we are drafting in the teens (pick has protection) so getting a guy like Asik huge in replace of a backup rookie at best.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:03 pm to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
because hes a change of pace guard who can play multiple positions, can run the 2nd unit behind Jrue
Call me crazy but I'd rather the Tyreke that averaged 20-5-5 while shooting 50 percent from the field over the Tyreke that averaged 13-3-3 while shooting 40 percent off of the bench.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:27 pm to cgrand
I would not consider a team without Holiday and Evans a better situation. The Pelicans are not a small market team so try will not just easily attract big time FAs to a bare team (AD isn't enough to just attract other players).
Unless the Pelicans make a big move with Anderson I think the team will most likely move Rivers to accommodate the Asik trade and give us the MLE.
IMO the Pelicans with Davis, Holiday, Evans, Gordon, Anderson, and Asik have one of the more talented rosters in the league.
Unless the Pelicans make a big move with Anderson I think the team will most likely move Rivers to accommodate the Asik trade and give us the MLE.
IMO the Pelicans with Davis, Holiday, Evans, Gordon, Anderson, and Asik have one of the more talented rosters in the league.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:42 pm to Epic Cajun
If Tyreke comes off the bench again this year, the coach needs to be fired. And we know that ain't happening.
To answer the OP. We chose the "win now" approach bc the excuse was we never had talent (which was actually true the 2nd year of Monty). So we traded our 1st rounder (unknown talent) for an all star PG. We also landed a former rookie of the year in Tyreke. The problem is/was injuries and the ineptness of our head coach. So we go with the "acquire talent now" than try to rebuild thru the draft.
The one common denominator of losing is Monty Williams. I know y'all are tired of me saying it, but our coach is a joke. We have the talent this year to make a it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs. The thing is, IMO, that there's no way we will make it to the 2nd round. Monty's shortcomings as a coach (adjustments) will be glaring come playoffs. He will be out coached in a 7 games series so bad, it'll be a joke.
To answer the OP. We chose the "win now" approach bc the excuse was we never had talent (which was actually true the 2nd year of Monty). So we traded our 1st rounder (unknown talent) for an all star PG. We also landed a former rookie of the year in Tyreke. The problem is/was injuries and the ineptness of our head coach. So we go with the "acquire talent now" than try to rebuild thru the draft.
The one common denominator of losing is Monty Williams. I know y'all are tired of me saying it, but our coach is a joke. We have the talent this year to make a it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs. The thing is, IMO, that there's no way we will make it to the 2nd round. Monty's shortcomings as a coach (adjustments) will be glaring come playoffs. He will be out coached in a 7 games series so bad, it'll be a joke.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 4:54 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
This debate is pointless right now. The people who think "Top 3 pick" and "15% chance at a Top 3 pick" are synonymous will never agree with the current build philosophy because they are living in a dreamland where 15% = 100%.
fricking A.
quote:
For those who disagree with the current direction but are capable of discussing this reasonably, you have to at least wait and see the rest of the moves that get made in the next 2 weeks. Trading for Asik changes the equation dramatically, and if they fill the SF hole with a competent role player, then the biggest complaints about the current build philosophy, that it created an imbalanced roster, will have been addressed.
Pretty much.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 5:37 pm to Tiger Nation 84
Vasquez was traded twice last year (first to sac-town and then to toronto). And Sacramento needs a 'good pg' pretty badly as well.
Noel has not even touched a court yet, so we'll never know. Even still, now you have Embiid possibly starting over him. Noel could become the next Thabeet for all we know.
What SF could we have gotten in this draft or last? Lets see:
Shabazz? Couldn't even get many minutes
Giannis? 24 minutes; 7/4/2; 41/35/68
McDermott? Sure, I'd go with this one
Saric? Won't play for another 2 years
Warren? Bench player imo
Young? Ditto
Hood? Ditto
Without those trades, we'd be putting on the court the 2012 team. Robin Lopez would still be shitting the bed, and we'd have more holes than we do now. But we would SURELY have a bit of cash to land...no one or overpay for a mediocre player.
Noel has not even touched a court yet, so we'll never know. Even still, now you have Embiid possibly starting over him. Noel could become the next Thabeet for all we know.
What SF could we have gotten in this draft or last? Lets see:
Shabazz? Couldn't even get many minutes
Giannis? 24 minutes; 7/4/2; 41/35/68
McDermott? Sure, I'd go with this one
Saric? Won't play for another 2 years
Warren? Bench player imo
Young? Ditto
Hood? Ditto
Without those trades, we'd be putting on the court the 2012 team. Robin Lopez would still be shitting the bed, and we'd have more holes than we do now. But we would SURELY have a bit of cash to land...no one or overpay for a mediocre player.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 5:59 pm to htran90
A few thoughts:
Any time you are echoing what the Knicks and Nets are doing with regards to moving draft picks, it's not a bad idea to at least step back and reevaluate. That said, the players they are getting are better than the guys those teams were adding.
It's not about keeping picks, drafting, and then developing star players. That doesn't happen all too often- Indiana and Chicago are as much of an outlier as OKC is. But that doesn't mean you eschew the draft because the odds are low. The odds are low for every method of team building.
The talent is here. They should be pretty good (natch). Is it enough to make the playoffs? Who knows. Do I think they overpaid to get Holiday and Evans? Yes. Do I hate those moves? No. I think Demps probably overpaid a little to get Asik, but that was his best move since dealing for Anderson.
Like ATL said, we need to see who goes to make sure Asik fits. And we need to see what happens with a healthy roster to really say whether they blew it or not. So far, it's been a bit of a bust due to injury.
Any time you are echoing what the Knicks and Nets are doing with regards to moving draft picks, it's not a bad idea to at least step back and reevaluate. That said, the players they are getting are better than the guys those teams were adding.
It's not about keeping picks, drafting, and then developing star players. That doesn't happen all too often- Indiana and Chicago are as much of an outlier as OKC is. But that doesn't mean you eschew the draft because the odds are low. The odds are low for every method of team building.
The talent is here. They should be pretty good (natch). Is it enough to make the playoffs? Who knows. Do I think they overpaid to get Holiday and Evans? Yes. Do I hate those moves? No. I think Demps probably overpaid a little to get Asik, but that was his best move since dealing for Anderson.
Like ATL said, we need to see who goes to make sure Asik fits. And we need to see what happens with a healthy roster to really say whether they blew it or not. So far, it's been a bit of a bust due to injury.
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