Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see? - Page 6 - TigerDroppings.com

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inadaze
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

The game plan in the UF game was to run the ball and dominate the TOP. They were on their 3rd string QB and just flat out had a crappy offense. But, their D was very good with some great DBs. And, IIRC, Jarvis was not at 100% for that game. We ran the ball, dominated possession and were in control that entire game.


Yeah, the Offense set a physical tone in that game. Big Dillon Gordon was getting after Ronald Powell (Saints' 5th Round Pick).

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And, the reason I dont think we should run Auburns style of offense is because its NOT balanced, despite what people think, and its almost too fast that it hurts the D. They threw the ball 285times last year, and ran it 729times, which is 20pass attempts per game and 52 rushing attempts per game, which is 72% running the ball and 28% passing... not that balanced. LSU threw the ball 326times and ran it 523times, 25pass attempts per game and 40 rushing attempts per game, which is almost a 60/40 running to passing the ball ratio... Much more balanced. Plus, I dont want our pass 1st QB to run the ball 185times in a season in the SEC. And when you have an offense that is so fast and uptempo, you dont have an advantage with TOP, which means your D stays on the field more. Which means the other team has more chances to score. Your D gets gassed because they are on the field so much and because the offense scores quickly. And when you D is gassed, the other teams O has an advantage.


I agree. The one aspect of Auburn's running game that I would like to see more of in LSU's running game is deception/misdirection-type plays run off of the base of the power running game. But when it comes to pace, I'm in agreement with Saban, Bielema, et al.

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I just disagree with that statement. Again, he is a gifted athlete... but hes a true pass 1st type of QB. And he can still use his legs in our offense as well. Roll outs, scrambling, improvising, etc. Wilson and the Seahawks dont run that style of offense, yet he still makes big plays using his legs... Just because he has the ability to run at the QB position doesnt mean we should completely change our offensive philosophy and run something that Miles, Cameron, etc have no experience running. I dont get why anybody would want to let Harris, whose best asset is his arm, to run the ball 185x a season when we have a great OL with some really good RBs on the team. Let the running backs do the running. Not saying we should never let Harris run, because I think he should get some designed plays.... but just some. Again, Harris is a true QB that has the athleticism to run but he is a pass 1st guy.


From what I've seen of Harris, I agree here as well, with my only real question being his accuracy, but we have a discrepancy of 10% in this thread on his Sr. year completion percentage depending on where the numbers come from. Do you have a take on his accuracy/completion percentage?



This post was edited on 6/9 at 5:28 pm


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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

you make it sound as if Harris is just a passer. that's not true!


Every time I said anything about Harris I said he is a great athlete with the ability to run... never said anything about him just being a passer. I said hes a pass 1st QB that has the ability to run, because thats what he is, but never said anything along the lines of Harris just being a pocket passer.

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But my point was the offense changed the second half of the season because the play callin was different. You could tell Miles wanted to go back to running more like they are accustomed to and Cameron obliged him because Cameron wasn't power running like that early on. That's Miles' game, but I saw nothing wrong with what Cameron was doing early on in the season.


And you keep saying that our offense had a major change from the 1st half of the year to the 2nd half of the year... and we didnt pass it nearly as much and we ran the ball more...

Through the 1st 6 games of the season, Mett threw 157 pass attempts. The last 6 games of the season, SEC crunch time, he threw for 139pass attempts. And he missed the end of the Arky game so if you add the 7 attempts Jennings had, even though Im pretty sure Mett would have been throwing it more than he did, he would be at least at 146pass attempts.Rushing wise, we had 230attempts in the 1st 6 games of the season and 234attempts the 2nd half of the season.

The difference in passing attempts per game in the 2nd half from the 1st half was just 1.8pass attempts less per game, rushing attempts was just 0.6 attempts more per game. Not a big difference, especially when you consider the blowouts that occurred early on in the season. Not sure where this blatantly obvious offensive change occured...

quote:

But with weapons like you just mentioned they recruited and brought in. You would like to see an explosive offense utilize all that talent.
Yea... and running type of system that Auburn runs would not utilize that talent to the fullest. I mean you do realize LSU just became the 1st team in SEC history to have a QB go over 3,000yards passing, a RB go over 1,000 yards rushing, and 2 WRs go over 1,000 yards receiving....and set an LSU record for total yards per game at 453.3ypg. I would say thats a damn good job of utilizing the talent on the team.






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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

From what I've seen of Harris, I agree here as well, with my only real question being his accuracy, but we have a discrepancy of 10% in this thread on his Sr. year completion percentage depending on where the numbers come from. Do you have a take on his accuracy/completion percentage?


Meh... not really worried about his accuracy. And I dont like going off of a kids high school stats because it doesnt tell all, especially with a QB. How many drops did his WRs have? Hes not playing with SEC caliber WRs. I have a friend who coached against Harris and Parkway and he basically said Harris was the whole team and didnt have that many good players besides him... and they still made it to the State Finals.

As long as its not horrible or below 50%, I dont think theres anything to really worry about. And, 1 of the areas that kids improve dramatically between high school and college is decision making and the mental part of the game... and that is a direct relationship to completion percentages IMO. Getting better at reading defenses helps you make the right decision on where to go with the ball which improves your %s.



This post was edited on 6/9 at 5:16 pm


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tubucoco
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


yeah, I do realize the record yards they had last season. And that was because of Cameron. The passing yards for Beckham and Landry, a good portion came early on. Look as I said, brah I don't agree with you. I'm not gonna keep going tit for tat with you on this shit! If you don't think the philosophy changed in offense from early on in the season to going later on. That's you! I'm not the only one on here that recognized that. Running the power I and smash mouth running is a Les Miles' staple, but a lot of people don't care for it. Auburn's spread attack isn't just used by them and it's not one dimensional like you wanna try to portray it out to be by sayin it's not balanced. Auburn does one thing really well when running it and that's run because their QB is a shite passer.

but you can do both run and pass real well in that type of offense especially with a great young player like Harris. Shit, Hill could have run for a whole lot more yardage if some of that misdirection type stuff a spread employs had been used in LSU's offense because he would have caught a lot of teams of guard with it breaking off huge gains. And the passing out of it is just as effective. You can also catch them off guard. So, I have no ideal where you get the running or passing would suffer some if switched to that type of offense or players not be utilized to their fullest. That's crap! Big plays utilizing both RB's and WR's would come in chunks of yardage.



This post was edited on 6/9 at 5:31 pm


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inadaze
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Member since Aug 2010
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Meh... not really worried about his accuracy. And I dont like going off of a kids high school stats because it doesnt tell all, especially with a QB. How many drops did his WRs have? Hes not playing with SEC caliber WRs.


Of course, you have to put any statistics in context.

But if lsusports.net is correct, then you have:

HS Senior Year - 54%

HS Junior Year - 50%

LSU Spring Game - 39%

Now, if his Senior year was 63%, then you could say -- he improved from his Junior to Senior year -- and maybe the Spring Game was an aberration. But, the above numbers are what I have seen, so that's why I question the accuracy.



This post was edited on 6/10 at 4:07 am


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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Well that's the big question then

Need to get the correct %s.

Either way, I still don't think high school stats tell all, it stats at any level for that matter. I mean Dupre was the top WR recruit in the nation... And was in a veer offense and didn't have over 800yards receiving his SR year. There are plenty of kids that put up big time high school numbers and never sniff a college field.

Plus, coaching and play calling has a lot to do with HS numbers...






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inadaze
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Either way, I still don't think high school stats tell all, it stats at any level for that matter.


Agreed, but completion percentage is generally a good indication of accuracy, even while accounting for contextual factors.

But, we've got two different sets of Sr. year numbers.






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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Yeah... but at the same time you need to know how many drops his WRs had, what kinda plays they were calling (throwing the ball deep doesnt help a QBs completion %), how much pressure did he have on his throws (clean pocket vs guy in the face), throw aways, what kind of coaching and play calling did he have, etc. Lots of diff factors.

I am not worried about Harris' accuracy or completion percentage, especially with Coach Cameron.






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inadaze
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Member since Aug 2010
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Yeah... but at the same time you need to know how many drops his WRs had, what kinda plays they were calling (throwing the ball deep doesnt help a QBs completion %), how much pressure did he have on his throws (clean pocket vs guy in the face), throw aways, what kind of coaching and play calling did he have, etc. Lots of diff factors.


This is the type of stuff I meant when I said--contextual factors.






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Sampson
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Harris, Dupree and Adams.





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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

The passing yards for Beckham and Landry, a good portion came early on. Look as I said, brah I don't agree with you. I'm not gonna keep going tit for tat with you on this shit! If you don't think the philosophy changed in offense from early on in the season to going later on. That's you! I'm not the only one on here that recognized that. Running the power I and smash mouth running is a Les Miles' staple, but a lot of people don't care for it. Auburn's spread attack isn't just used by them and it's not one dimensional like you wanna try to portray it out to be by sayin it's not balanced. Auburn does one thing really well when running it and that's run because their QB is a shite passer.


I havent seen that many people in here saying they saw a difference in the offense from the 1st half to the 2nd half... And, again, the numbers say differently. And you havent brought up after I posted the #s, so I will post them again.

Through the 1st 6 games of the season, Mett threw 157 pass attempts. The last 6 games of the season, SEC crunch time, he threw for 139pass attempts. And he missed the end of the Arky game so if you add the 7 attempts Jennings had, even though Im pretty sure Mett would have been throwing it more than he did, he would be at least at 146pass attempts. Rushing wise, we had 230attempts in the 1st 6 games of the season and 234attempts the 2nd half of the season.

The difference between the 1st half vs 2nd half: (-)1.8 pass attempts per game, (+)0.6 rushing attempts per game. Marginal difference, especially considering during the final 6 games of the season we faced certain opponents that called for a power run game plan (TAMU in rain, Alabama, and Florida).

And running the power I and playing smash mouth is not just a Les Miles staple, but also a Cam Cameron staple, as well as majority of coaches and teams in college and NFL football. When it dominates an offensive playbook, I can get why people dont care for it. But, as shown above, it didnt dominate our playbook. It has in the past, dont get me wrong, and I didnt like it at all. But, last year was a perfect combo of pass and running. And we were extremely efficient at both and used them to set the other up... run to set up the pass, pass to set up the run. I mean we were great at running the ball last year, Hill set an SEC record for YPC IIRC. Why change something like that for no reason whatsoever, other than you dont like it and think its boring? It works and gets results. And thats how this team has been built.

And, again, that Auburn offense is most def. not balanced. 285 pass attempts to 729 rushing attempts... 71.8% rush / 28.2% pass. Yardage wise, they had 2,422yards passing and 4,596 rushing, 65.5% of their total yards came off the run, 34.5% came off the pass. Think about that... 99% of the time teams have more passing yards than rushing yards. And, Auburn only had 1 WR with more than 40catches and over 350yards.... Their 2nd leading WR had 28catches for 325yards. Thats not being balanced, at all.

quote:

So, I have no ideal where you get the running or passing would suffer some if switched to that type of offense or players not be utilized to their fullest.
Where did I ever say that? Never. But the players we have would not be utilized to the fullest though. Especially the pass catchers like Dural / Dupre / Quinn / DeSean Smith. Those guys are some of the most talented players on the team... and barely would get the opportunity to make plays for us in Auburns offense. You have those weapons... but arent using them. Kind of a waste.

And that includes Brandon Harris... you even said earlier that hes the type of talent that could win the Heisman at LSU. And I agree... But, if he gets 185 carries a season how long do you think he would hold up physically? Its not like hes built like Cam Newton or whatever... hes listed at 193lbs right now.

I would much rather use Harris like TAMU used Manziel than change our entire offensive philosophy to Auburns. Yeah I know Manziel is just 210lbs and ran and didnt miss a game, but its a miracle he didnt suffer a serious injury. Very rare for a QB his size to run that much and not sustain a serious injury.

He threw the ball way more than he ran, and was still a very explosive and dangerous as a runner and still beat teams running the ball. And they didnt call that many running plays for Manziel. Most of them were improvised by Manziel during a scramble or roll out... and I have no problem with Harris doing that. You utilized your WRs and pass catchers wayyy more than Auburn doesn, and you allow Harris to still be a threat with his legs if he chooses to do so. I have no problem with Harris reading the D, then deciding to tuck the ball and run.

But at the same time, Manziel never had the type of RBs we have here at LSU and we should use our RBs way more than TAMU did. And use them in the power I with the QB under center because thats the type of RBs and OL that we have, and we are very successful at that.






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LSUzealot
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Harris for me. He's the difference between 3 losses & 0 losses.





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LSUzealot
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Holy wall of txt. But good post I read it all.





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Datbayoubengal
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Just to be clear, I wasn't making a case for Rettig. I've never seen him play, and don't know anything about him.


I just used him for measuring since he and Harris have close to the same yardage and TDs.

quote:

As for those numbers, that looks a lot better than what I've seen. Per lsusports.net:


I got those stats directly from his highlight video. lsusports.net has a lot of misinformation.


Go look at his 247 page profile. Same stats I posted.

If you watch his junior then senior highlights, you'll see a QB who has developed greatly in just a one year timeframe.i think he's one of those guys like Teddy Bridgewater, who develops greatly on a yearly basis. All of Teddy's statistics went up from year to year at Louisville. I see the same thing happening for Harris.






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bencoleman
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


I hope I didn't miss downvoting any of your posts, you are the only person that I have seen that wants that crap that Auburn runs here at LSU. Not no but hell fricking no. We have the talent we don't have to run that crap. I am confident that Cam is smarter than that.





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LSUFM57
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Member since Jul 2012
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Dupre and Garrett





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ralliartist
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Member since Oct 2013
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


Speedy Noil. Oh wait....





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inadaze
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Member since Aug 2010
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

I just used him for measuring since he and Harris have close to the same yardage and TDs.



Gotcha.

quote:

I got those stats directly from his highlight video. lsusports.net has a lot of misinformation. Go look at his 247 page profile. Same stats I posted.


I see where you got them from now.



quote:

If you watch his junior then senior highlights, you'll see a QB who has developed greatly in just a one year timeframe.i think he's one of those guys like Teddy Bridgewater, who develops greatly on a yearly basis. All of Teddy's statistics went up from year to year at Louisville. I see the same thing happening for Harris.


That's an interesting comparison. Similar size, both a little slight in their frame. Both have good pocket mobility. I think Harris may be more capable in his ability to pick up yards rushing.

At Louisville, Teddy had real good accuracy and great touch when he took a little off and varied the velocity. The main weakness for TB during the lead-up to the draft was arm strength, which Harris looks to have plenty of at this stage. If Harris can be as precise with his passing as Bridgewater was, or close to it, LSU is going to be in real good shape at QB.







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KG5989
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Speedy Noil. Oh wait....








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Ebbandflow
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Member since Aug 2010
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re: Outside of Leonard, what Freshman are you most excited to see?


quote:

Voorhies. Gonna be interesting to see where they line him up at. Dude can play receiver or safety


Agreed but you put athletes like this on defense.






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