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re: Where has the Voucher System been effective exactly?
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:02 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:02 am to theunknownknight
That's the other thing. Voucher system or no voucher system, no government program can fix the home life.
The home and supporting family/community environment will make up about 90 percent of whether a student fails or is successful.
That's why I don't see the LA voucher program as being some huge, vast game-changer overall; however, I do like the idea that those parents, single moms or not, have the possibility to get their child out of a gutter public school and try an alternative one.
The home and supporting family/community environment will make up about 90 percent of whether a student fails or is successful.
That's why I don't see the LA voucher program as being some huge, vast game-changer overall; however, I do like the idea that those parents, single moms or not, have the possibility to get their child out of a gutter public school and try an alternative one.
2
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:04 am to moneyg
quote:No kidding!
The parents would have to have chosen that school.
Layabout's presumption is that most parents are too stupid to figure that out.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:07 am to ragincajun03
vouchers haven't been used enough to make any meaningful statistics ...
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:08 am to ragincajun03
Agree 100% on the home environment being the most important. If you listen to the stories of Dr. Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, and others, they all trace their success basically back to the importance their parents placed on education. However, the reason I think private education can win out in a voucher system and prove to be much more valuable than government subsidized schools is because it will provide incentive to improve vs more funding for failure. The only problem I have now is I can't find many examples of its implementation.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:16 am to tiderider
quote:
vouchers haven't been used enough to make any meaningful statistics ...
Has school choice (for those fortunate enough to be able to afford it) " been used enough to make any meaningful statistics ... " ???
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:21 am to C
quote:
Kinda like private schools...
Schools are effective or ineffective based upon the students they get. Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body than more pay for teachers, air conditioning, new books, new curriculum, etc.
Vouchers and charters are just the conservative analogs to more government funding, busing, etc.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:27 am to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body
So basically it doesn't matter who is teaching? Who is heading up the school? This is your argument, really? I can tell you from a lifetime of different schools, different classmates, and different teachers that this is total bullshite.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:29 am to CarrolltonTiger
quote:Such a sad POV.
Schools are effective or ineffective based upon the students they get. Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body than more pay for teachers, air conditioning, new books, new curriculum, etc.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 8:30 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:Of course it is.
I can tell you from a lifetime of different schools, different classmates, and different teachers that this is total bullshite.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 9:20 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
It's my perception that vouchers have had a very positive impact in Orleans Parish.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 9:22 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:
So basically it doesn't matter who is teaching? Who is heading up the school? This is your argument, really? I can tell you from a lifetime of different schools, different classmates, and different teachers that this is total bullshite.
It doesn't matter except when it's time to ask for pay raises, and then suddenly having highly paid teachers, principals and administrators is the single most important thing ever.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 10:15 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
The Voucher System as outlined by it's creator, Milton Friedman, has never been tried... anywhere. So we cannot say how effective it's been.
The voucher systems that have been implemented are designed to allow mobility for kids in failing school districts. Friedman said that for vouchers to work they have to be available to EVERYONE. It's not supposed to be a tool for equality or social engineering. It's designed to introduce free market forces into K-12 which historically is FAR from free market.
The voucher systems that have been implemented are designed to allow mobility for kids in failing school districts. Friedman said that for vouchers to work they have to be available to EVERYONE. It's not supposed to be a tool for equality or social engineering. It's designed to introduce free market forces into K-12 which historically is FAR from free market.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:00 am to GumboPot
quote:
I can't help you with your query, however for political reasons the word "voucher" needs to changed to "credit"
Actually, the word " voucher" needs to be changed to "handout."
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:08 am to Jake88
quote:
handout
Not really, in the sense that all the same money is being spent right now *in a less effective way.
This post was edited on 4/24/14 at 11:09 am
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:13 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
I can tell you that from your lifetime of different schools, different classmates, and different teachers you can't read for shite.
I wrote: "Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body."
Come back with a critique when you can understand what others write you dumb shite.
I wrote: "Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body."
Come back with a critique when you can understand what others write you dumb shite.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:14 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Such a sad POV.
Why? You think an 85 IQ student is going to become a scholar if Socrates and Einstein tutor him?
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:16 am to LSURussian
quote:
It's my perception that vouchers have had a very positive impact in Orleans Parish.
Realy! What schools in Orleans Parish are accepting vouchers? How long has this been going on?
The current claim is Charters are making a big difference, I've seen no claim vouchers are doing diddly squat around here.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 12:10 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
I wrote: "Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body."
This is true. Currently, Caddo Parish is doing a "Re-Imagining" program. They are going to move some students, move some administrators, move some money to solve the problem of their 10 horribly failing schools (read...inner city).
Those schools cannot be fixed. The average IQ of those students is about 80. The best idea would be to move to a trade school model for low IQ students at 9th grade level.
Lots of labor skills don't require a HS diploma.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 12:13 pm to Zach
Exactly. Heck, I would move it to 8th grade with even options for younger than that.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 12:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
quote:
Schools are effective or ineffective based upon the students they get. Changing the administration doesn't do anything more to change the cognitive capacity or incentive of the student body than more pay for teachers, air conditioning, new books, new curriculum, etc.
Such a sad POV.
If you had a skill such as plumbing that you wanted to teach me but I came to your class and basically didn't cause much trouble but didn't really pay attention. You called my parents and they basically said they'd see what they could do at home (which was their way of saying we won't do much if anything).
No matter what you try my plumbing scores will be low because neither my parents nor myself really cared about this. So how will your awesome teaching abilities really matter? Remember, I am in a class of 30 or so other kids. Are you going to drop everything for me? What if you have a class with 19 other students in my same situation?
If you had a class of students whose parents were motivated and the student was motivated to get an education then that awesome teacher can really help boost the ability of the kids. A poor teacher can not. No matter the awesomeness of the teacher in the plumbing example, the non-motivated family/kids won't do well because they just don't care or possibly have the mental brainpower.
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