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Started By
Message
re: Police Murder Innocent Man
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:47 pm to NYNolaguy1
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:47 pm to NYNolaguy1
What do you do? You shoot the hostage.
1
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:51 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
And what if it is the guy with the knife?
It wasn't. They killed a victim. At least no police were harmed though, so mission accomplished.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:52 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
What do you do? You shoot the hostage.
Seems to be a consensus of that opinion on this board.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:56 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Seems to be a consensus of that opinion on this board.
I was just quoting "Speed".
Being in New York, you know this trend all too well. The NYPD is the prime example of people who shouldn't be trusted with guns.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 7:04 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
The NYPD is the prime example of people who shouldn't be trusted with guns.
The police here just harass the people that don't do as they are told. The blue line is pretty strong here. The laws reflect that as they are more of guidelines than real rules.
It's amazing to think that some cities (even bigger than NYC) have police officers without weapons.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 7:29 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
If this happened to any civilian they would be on trial yesterday for manslaughter or negligent homicide.
I disagree.
Investigation would have been conducted and then probably taken to Grand Jury.
If civilian really believed the person was the perpetrator and was chasing down the other victim they should be ok.
Civil court would hammer them, though.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 7:37 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Shoot when my life was actually in danger. Like when someone aims a gun at me, or is slashing at me with a knife. So say the other guy was chasing him. Did he pose a deadly threat? No. Was he holding a weapon? No. Somehow they managed to physically restrain the actual criminal but killed the guy running from him.
What about the first hostage who's life is in danger? They thought Winkler was the slasher, and they thought he was in the process of knifing down the first hostage that ran out.
They fired. It was wrong, but we are all doing this in hindsight. No one is gonna hold back when it looks like a guy is about to get knifed down right in form tot you.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 7:52 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
They thought Winkler was the slasher, and they thought he was in the process of knifing down the first hostage that ran out.
I'd be curious to see which police officer saw the knife in Winkler's hands.
quote:
What about the first hostage who's life is in danger?
Why not physically restrain both of them? I was under the impression that in hostage situations the police subdue everyone first to exactly avoid situations like this. If Winkler didn't have any weapons, why wasn't that their first instinct? I think we both know why.
quote:
They fired. It was wrong, but we are all doing this in hindsight.
You're right. All I ask for is accountability. This just whole thing just further reinforces the growing trend that cops can and will continue to kill at will with a big fat 0 repercussions.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:01 pm to NYNolaguy1
Nobody said they reported seeing a knife in his hand.
They see a guy run out with multiple stab wounds and another guy run out directly behind him and they assumed he was the slasher chasing the 1st guy.
This was a split second decision.
Not if they think the person is armed.
They see a guy run out with multiple stab wounds and another guy run out directly behind him and they assumed he was the slasher chasing the 1st guy.
This was a split second decision.
quote:
Why not physically restrain both of them? I was under the impression that in hostage situations the police subdue everyone first to exactly avoid situations like this
Not if they think the person is armed.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:03 pm to Strannix
quote:
Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies mistook
So you're telling me cops in Los angeles arrived to a situation with a shoot first ask questions later attitude? shocked I tell you. shocked.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:07 pm to theenemy
quote:
They see a guy run out with multiple stab wounds and another guy run out directly behind him and they assumed he was the slasher chasing the 1st guy.
With no weapon.
And still decided to fire.
I wish I could tell you I'm surprised.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:11 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
With no weapon.
And still decided to fire.
True, but remember this is a split second decision.
What if the guy did have a knife but they didn't see it until he buried it in the guy's neck.
I'm not saying it wasn't a screw up, but this is not murder.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:17 pm to theenemy
quote:
I'm not saying it wasn't a screw up, but this is not murder.
So, as we both agree it is a screw up - and I think it's a little more than that - do you think they deserve to get back on the beat?
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:24 pm to magildachunks
The piece I read last nigjt stated a bleeding victim came out then someone ( the dead victim ) ran towards or behind the bleeding victim.
I think it is a tragedy, and don't like smart azz cops at all, as a matter of fact I think we are nigh a police state.
But accidents happen.
Those cops are going to have to live with that and I don't think they meant to kill an innocent man.
I think it is a tragedy, and don't like smart azz cops at all, as a matter of fact I think we are nigh a police state.
But accidents happen.
Those cops are going to have to live with that and I don't think they meant to kill an innocent man.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:36 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
So, as we both agree it is a screw up - and I think it's a little more than that - do you think they deserve to get back on the beat?
No. If split second decision making isn't your strong suit you shouldn't be a cop. Part of the problem is who we hire for police officers. Instead of it being a dignified position of peace protection it's more of a I didn't do so well in highschool and couldn't get out of my home town type position.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:51 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
do you think they deserve to get back on the beat?
I dunno.
I would need to interview them first and get the details.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:51 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Why not physically restrain both of them? I was under the impression that in hostage situations the police subdue everyone first to exactly avoid situations like this. If Winkler didn't have any weapons, why wasn't that their first instinct? I think we both know why.
this is 1. probably happened very quickly 2. there is no quarantee you can restrain the suspect before he injuries or kills the other victim.
quote:
You're right. All I ask for is accountability. This just whole thing just further reinforces the growing trend that cops can and will continue to kill at will with a big fat 0 repercussions.
There will most likely be repercussions. Most likely a civil suit, and some time off. I just don't think it is murder
Posted on 4/12/14 at 12:59 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
When you use a gun continually in your job description there is just going to be mistakes, that is just a fact.
You lost me here. Most cops go their whole career or at least have numerous years' long stretches of it without discharging their weapon. This isn't like playing AREA 51 at the arcade and accidentally firing one errant shot out of 2000 into the forehead of a human instead of an alien.
IMO, it's a cops job to have a longer fuse for pulling his trigger in confounding situations like this one--that trigger point should err on the side of the cop being in more danger and less on the side of shooting the wrong person accidentally. Their job is to protect the public, even when putting their own lives in danger.
This is a "never" kind of mistake that should have very harsh consequences.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 1:04 am to SammyTiger
quote:
What about the first hostage who's life is in danger? They thought Winkler was the slasher, and they thought he was in the process of knifing down the first hostage that ran out.
They fired. It was wrong, but we are all doing this in hindsight. No one is gonna hold back when it looks like a guy is about to get knifed down right in form tot you.
They knew it was a multiple hostage situation, and at any point multiple hostages could come out. How do you unload your magazine on someone that you're concerned is about to knife someone with a giant slashed knife, when that person doesn't have a knife in their hand?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 8:16 am to Strannix
I am as critical of the police as anybody, but I feel that this is just a tragic accident.
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