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re: OT potheads, what's your opinion of "wax?"

Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:30 am to
Posted by Cockopotamus
Member since Jan 2013
15737 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:30 am to
quote:

The lower the cannabidiol:thc gets, the higher the risk for psychosis and most of the "negative" effects (memory impairment, agitation, among others)


Its astounding the number of idiots that aren't aware of this.

Obviously it affects people differently, and its possible that people that have an onset of psychosis due to marijuana are predisposed to it, but people preaching weed has no negative side effects should be taken out back and executed.

Its not the 60s. THC levels have skyrocketed because thats what gets you high, but CBD levels have remained the same
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:31 am to
quote:

Maybe you don't understand the process. It isn't distilling or purifying or some intense scientific thing. It just separates the THC crystals from the carbon plant matter.



The question I have is best put like this: are all 60ish cannabinoids separated equally? Or do any dominate in the extraction?
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56233 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:35 am to
quote:

Point taken. I don't disagree. However, this has nothing to do with my point, which is the effects on full-to-hyperstimulation of CB1 receptors in the absence of cannabidiol which are better understood because of synthetics.
Great. I never touch it and tell others to avoid it. It isn't marijuana. Linking the two is completely dishonest.

From your own link:

quote:

There has been considerable debate regarding the causal relationship between chronic cannabis abuse and psychiatric disorders. Clinicians agree that cannabis use can cause acute adverse mental effects that mimic psychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Although there is good evidence to support this, the connections are complex and not fully understood.
I quote this because it's the basic crux of what I think you're saying, the theme of Obama's retraction of his statement, and the leading, vague argument by opponents. "We just don't fully understand it yet." Opponents will say the same thing 1000 years from now, or as long as they can get away with it.

quote:

Everything can be concentrated to deadly levels. How many of them are concentrated with intent for recreational use?
Any and all of them that can be. In Africa, people huff their own fermented shite.

quote:

pretty good science
Not as good as it used to be.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:37 am to
quote:

If that's all you're getting at then in apologize and agree with you



So maybe this helps you understand where I'm really trying to go with this:
Let's say 1% of people are allergic to Penicillin. It's rare for someone who has received it with no problems to have a problem with it (let's say another 1%). They make a new penicillin. People who used to take penicillin just fine are now allergic to the new stuff at a rate of 15%. You are probably safer in suggesting people use the old penicillin instead of the new stuff, because it's safer and has fewer side effects.
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:38 am to
quote:

The question I have is best put like this: are all 60ish cannabinoids separated equally? Or do any dominate in the extraction? 


I would assume basically equal. All it does is knock the little crystals off the plant.
Posted by burgeman
Member since Jun 2008
10360 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:39 am to
I like how you are basically agreeing with everyone but they keep thinking you are attacking them.
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:41 am to
quote:

They make a new penicillin. People who used to take penicillin just fine are now allergic to the new stuff at a rate of 15%.


I get that. What I'm trying to explain is "wax" is not something new. It's just weed with a scary name and a propagandists spin. Literally no different at all except concentrated. Like the difference between a beer and a shot of everclear.
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:42 am
Posted by Starchild
Member since May 2010
13550 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:41 am to
quote:

I think this is what I've heard some people refer to as dap. I don't really do that kind of stuff anymore, but I've heard that it's pretty crazy.



It's called dabs. Doesn't keep you high all day, but one hit does get you stoned. Tried it a year ago when I had a pretty high tolerance and three hits had it feeling like a trip
Posted by Cockopotamus
Member since Jan 2013
15737 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:42 am to
quote:

I would assume basically equal. All it does is knock the little crystals off the plant.



The point is that if its only increasing THC levels and not CBD levels (which it sounds like) then the psych issues could come into play
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:43 am to
quote:

like how you are basically agreeing with everyone but they keep thinking you are attacking them.


I don't thinkhe's attacking me at all. This is actually one of the better discussions II've had. Neither of us had gotten pissed and it hasn't devolved to some absurd extreme or personal attacks. Just a good dialog which I am very much enjoying
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:45 am to
quote:

The point is that if its only increasing THC levels and not CBD levels (which it sounds like) then the psych issues could come into play





The way I understand the plant, all of the thc and cbd ate contained in these crystals which manifest prominently on the buds of the plant. They are basically inseparable without some kind of advanced scientific process.
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:47 am
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:48 am to
quote:

I quote this because it's the basic crux of what I think you're saying, the theme of Obama's retraction of his statement, and the leading, vague argument by opponents. "We just don't fully understand it yet." Opponents will say the same thing 1000 years from now, or as long as they can get away with it.


I insist that providing a casual relationship isn't necessary. Here is why. Some people have a schizophrenic mom or dad. They go smoke for a weekend and get brought in with symptoms of schizophrenia. You admit them. Upon learning the whole history, instead of starting them on meds, you wait. You give them time. They come back to normal. They don't require treatment after the fact. They never show schizophrenic signs other than while smoking. Do you or I need a causal link rather than casual association (don't go dyslexic on me there) to determine the best way to treat them?

From here, I say that this number isn't that big. It's also not that concerning. What IS concerning is the notion that, instead of this happening to the current percentage of the population that number expands and includes people that aren't identifiable (called "normal").

So I will agree with your point that not knowing whether the at-risk group expands or not and saying "we don't fully understand" will be gotten away with for as long as it can (or until widespread use is achieved, looked at, and documented as more, less, or no change in current side effect profile from current trends and strains.

quote:

Any and all of them that can be. In Africa, people huff their own fermented shite.

I'll concede the point, but I will also leave you with a "you know damn well that more people use more highly concentrated toxic versions of drugs for recreational use to the point that they're putting themselves at risk than those that take the super-powered drano and ingest or shoot it up," even if I can't prove it.
Posted by Peazey
Metry
Member since Apr 2012
25418 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:53 am to
quote:

The point is that if its only increasing THC levels and not CBD levels (which it sounds like) then the psych issues could come into play


I don't think anyone here knows this. I don't think light has been shown on what is happening with CBD levels. The article and everyone has simply been concentrating on the THC. It's very possible for concentrations of both to increase. I'd assume simply that more research needs to be done, whether it be just looking up the figures or actual testing.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:53 am to
quote:

The way I understand the plant, all of the thc and cbd ate contained in these crystals which manifest prominently on the buds of the plant. They are basically inseparable without some kind of advanced scientific process.


Here's the science-side/based fear:
We don't know their individual polar/non polar solubilities of the molecules involved. If it comes out in regular proportions, basically all is fine and dandy. If CBD (and again, there are around 60 identified unique molecules, this is thought the be THE antagonist of the bunch , but there easily could be others at play) falls off at a slower rate, psych issues are a concern. If it falls off at a faster rate, you'll actually lose efficacy by concentration as opposed to volume- consuming (assuming yield doesn't reach 100%).
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:56 am to
quote:

I don't think anyone here knows this. I don't think light has been shown on what is happening with CBD levels. The article and everyone has simply been concentrating on the THC. It's very possible for concentrations of both to increase. I'd assume simply that more research needs to be done, whether it be just looking up the figures or actual testing.


You put it better than I did. But the point is, until this is more heavily researched, justified concern stands (and unopposed THC is a little more scary than most people in this thread are making it out to be. Granted, I don't think anyone has seen the effects of pure htc in high concentrations on a human without other cannabinoids involved. I may be wrong.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14938 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:59 am to
quote:

I like how you are basically agreeing with everyone but they keep thinking you are attacking them.


I chalk it up to the original knee-jerk "HE SAID POT ISNT THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD HE IS DUM" reaction usually given to those who are anti-marijuana and in general have zero real reason for being so. Once the few posters that started reading what I was saying a little more in depth, this got a lot more enjoyable and has been a pretty interesting discussion on the topic.
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56233 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Obviously it affects people differently, and its possible that people that have an onset of psychosis due to marijuana are predisposed to it, but people preaching weed has no negative side effects should be taken out back and executed.
You sound like a real fun guy.

quote:

Its not the 60s. THC levels have skyrocketed because thats what gets you high, but CBD levels have remained the same
What? Like Breesus said, no chemical alteration is taking place. It's just a concentrated version of what already exists.
Posted by Michael J Cocks
Right Here
Member since Jun 2007
47153 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:01 am to
Doc, I'm on the same page.
Posted by Cockopotamus
Member since Jan 2013
15737 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:03 am to
quote:

I'd assume simply that more research needs to be done, whether it be just looking up the figures or actual testing.


Agreed.
Posted by mouton
Savannah,Ga
Member since Aug 2006
28276 posts
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:04 am to
What exactly are the psch concerns. Doesn't weed psychosis only last a few hours? Isnt it basically someone getting to high and freaking out?
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